Chris Huhne's votes arrive in time in 2007

[gladstone]

The key issue is the impact on the debates. My assumption is that Huhne would not have performed as well as Clegg - the course of the campaign would not have altered with the Tories maintaining a healthy lead in the polls throughout leading to an overall majority.

The impact of try debates on the Lib Dems is debatable - some may argue that the Clegg surge caused the party to take their eye off the ball losing sight of their target seat strategy. I would therefore contend that the impact on Lib Dem performance in 2010 ends up being neutral give or take a few seats.

So we have a majority Tory government in 2010, a reasonable Lib Dem presence in parliament and most importantly for them no coalition.

Huhne still falls in 2013, Clegg wins the leadership and the party performs in the teens in the 2014 (no fixed term parliament) election

[LDCaerdydd]

Aug 29, 2016 21:17:50 GMT @boogieeck said:

At this point, the freakish nature of Cleggmania occurs to me. If Cameron had said "well Nick has just recited Tory policy" rather than "I agree with Nick" then Cleggmania would have never flown and a poor election result might have been outright bad. And Cameron might have been unable to form a coalition with the Lib Dems. Inspired bad performance by Dave.

Cameron never said "I agree with Nick," Gordon Brown said it three times:

news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/pdfs/16_04_10_firstdebate.pdf

[pragmaticidealist]

Then the Liberal Democrats would have ended up with a convicted leader rather than a leader without conviction.

But seriously, it is rather tricky to envision a period of Huhnemania. The man isn't particularly telegenic or charismatic. However this may actually have meant a better electoral result in 2010 as many people reacted against the Cleggmania and the prospect of a Lib Dem government. Under Huhne they may have slowly trickled up to 25% in the polls and held their own better against the Tories thus netting them about 70 seats instead of 57.

[baloo]

Mar 7, 2016 11:21:14 GMT carlton43 said:

Mar 7, 2016 11:05:54 GMT @boogieeck said:

did you write that with a straight face?

Yes. I am a cynical old bastard but I thought he was a man of quality hit by a train of events. Many of us could have been in that position. I know I could. I do believe he was a better politician, manager, minister and negotiator than Clegg who was a well meaning innocent ready for plucking and only partially plucked by incompetent Cameron who probably quite liked him?  Now I would have given him a thorough shafting in the final year to seal the fate of his party, but I am not very nice in politics.

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

As for his capabilities as a leader he pressured his wife into taking the points for him and then dumped her for his secretary. Even leaving aside the ethics of it for a moment this was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

[Arthur Figgis]

Oct 22, 2016 13:44:57 GMT baloo said:

Mar 7, 2016 11:21:14 GMT carlton43 said:

Yes. I am a cynical old bastard but I thought he was a man of quality hit by a train of events. Many of us could have been in that position. I know I could. I do believe he was a better politician, manager, minister and negotiator than Clegg who was a well meaning innocent ready for plucking and only partially plucked by incompetent Cameron who probably quite liked him?  Now I would have given him a thorough shafting in the final year to seal the fate of his party, but I am not very nice in politics.

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

As for his capabilities as a leader he pressured his wife into taking the points for him and then dumped her for his secretary. Even leaving aside the ethics of it for a moment this was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

I don't have a problem with him speeding. Speed limits are set at arbitrary levels- sometimes too high, sometimes too slow. I was in a hurry this morning so drove at 25 in a 30 zone and then set my cruise control at xx mph on the motorway for about 8 miles. Despite being legal, the former was far more dangerous than the latter, which was illegal.
Given that, I don't have a problem with him speeding too often.
As for the rest, I always thought he was a cunt.

[carlton43]

Oct 22, 2016 13:44:57 GMT baloo said:

Mar 7, 2016 11:21:14 GMT carlton43 said:

Yes. I am a cynical old bastard but I thought he was a man of quality hit by a train of events. Many of us could have been in that position. I know I could. I do believe he was a better politician, manager, minister and negotiator than Clegg who was a well meaning innocent ready for plucking and only partially plucked by incompetent Cameron who probably quite liked him?  Now I would have given him a thorough shafting in the final year to seal the fate of his party, but I am not very nice in politics.

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

As for his capabilities as a leader he pressured his wife into taking the points for him and then dumped her for his secretary. Even leaving aside the ethics of it for a moment this was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

A 'Thread From the Past'. How nice. That reads quite well and I stand by it and by him.

Your first paragraph reads as a very young and rather innocent comment.........and a tad leftist?  Are you really a Conservative?  Blamed for speeding? what a naughty boy!  Done it more than once!  Obviously a complete wrong'un!  Must have been the only person ever to consider getting someone to 'take his points'. Oh the ignominy and the awfulness of it. Cheated on his wife! Unheard of and never known another case in politics.....Have you? 'Sold himself to the Voters as a Family Man' as so many do....Don't they? Yes he was a bit stupid not to envisage the possible angle of the wronged women...........but he probably correctly thought his former wife was brighter than to incriminate herself and wreck the career of her best friend merely to damage him? Bad call, but fully justifies dumping the woman in first case. Had it occurred to you that she might have fabricated the whole thing to wreck his life? It certainly has to me.

[mrpastelito]

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

Protestant reasoning: Blame people for their sins, everyone has to be a saint and there is no forgiveness. Calvinism at its best. Thou be damned!

Blamed for speeding? what a naughty boy!  Done it more than once!  Obviously a complete wrong'un!  Must have been the only person ever to consider getting someone to 'take his points'. Oh the ignominy and the awfulness of it. Cheated on his wife! Unheard of and never known anothercase in politics.....Have you? 'Sold himself to the Voters as a Family Man' as so many do....Don't they? Yes he was a bit stupid not to envisage the possible angle of the wronged women...........but he probably correctly thought his former wife was brighter than to incriminate herself and wreck the career of her best friend merely to damage him? Bad call, but fully justifies dumping the woman in first case. Had it occurred to you that she might have fabricated the whole thing to wreck his life? It certainly has to me.

Catholic/Orthodox reasoning: Acknowledge most people aren't saints and that we're all weak and to be pitied, then send them to confession. Ego te absolvo.

A much more human approach methinks, but one that has gone out of fashion in our modern world. It'll pain you to read it, carlton43 , but you, Sir, are a true Catholic*

*Or Orthodox, if you prefer - I don't mind.

[baloo]

Oct 22, 2016 14:00:27 GMT carlton43 said:

Oct 22, 2016 13:44:57 GMT baloo said:

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

As for his capabilities as a leader he pressured his wife into taking the points for him and then dumped her for his secretary. Even leaving aside the ethics of it for a moment this was an incredibly stupid thing to do.

A 'Thread From the Past'. How nice. That reads quite well and I stand by it and by him.

Your first paragraph reads as a very young and rather innocent comment.........and a tad leftist?  Are you really a Conservative?  Blamed for speeding? what a naughty boy!  Done it more than once!  Obviously a complete wrong'un!  Must have been the only person ever to consider getting someone to 'take his points'. Oh the ignominy and the awfulness of it. Cheated on his wife! Unheard of and never known another case in politics.....Have you? 'Sold himself to the Voters as a Family Man' as so many do....Don't they? Yes he was a bit stupid not to envisage the possible angle of the wronged women...........but he probably correctly thought his former wife was brighter than to incriminate herself and wreck the career of her best friend merely to damage him? Bad call, but fully justifies dumping the woman in first case. Had it occurred to you that she might have fabricated the whole thing to wreck his life? It certainly has to me.

Speed limits are set by law and the law applies to all of us equally without exception. I find it really quite bizarre that you try to pin the blame for his stupid and inexcusable actions on the women in his life.

[baloo]

Oct 22, 2016 21:16:30 GMT mrpastelito said:

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

Protestant reasoning: Blame people for their sins, everyone has to be a saint and there is no forgiveness. Calvinism at its best. Thou be damned!

Blamed for speeding? what a naughty boy!  Done it more than once!  Obviously a complete wrong'un!  Must have been the only person ever to consider getting someone to 'take his points'. Oh the ignominy and the awfulness of it. Cheated on his wife! Unheard of and never known anothercase in politics.....Have you? 'Sold himself to the Voters as a Family Man' as so many do....Don't they? Yes he was a bit stupid not to envisage the possible angle of the wronged women...........but he probably correctly thought his former wife was brighter than to incriminate herself and wreck the career of her best friend merely to damage him? Bad call, but fully justifies dumping the woman in first case. Had it occurred to you that she might have fabricated the whole thing to wreck his life? It certainly has to me.

Catholic/Orthodox reasoning: Acknowledge most people aren't saints and that we're all weak and to be pitied, then send them to confession. Ego te absolvo.

A much more human approach methinks, but one that has gone out of fashion in our modern world. It'll pain you to read it, carlton43 , but you, Sir, are a true Catholic*

*Or Orthodox, if you prefer - I don't mind.

In Catholicism forgiveness requires repentance. Huhne didn't repent, he tried to squirm out of responsibility by blaming others.

[carlton43]

Oct 22, 2016 21:16:30 GMT mrpastelito said:

Before any blame is apportioned to his wife, Chris Huhne should be blamed for speeding. Then he should be blamed again for speeding so often that he would have been banned. Then you can blame him for pressuring his wife into lying and taking the points. Then you can blame him for cheating on his wife while selling himself to voters as a family man. Then you can blame him again for doing all this while a politician.

Protestant reasoning: Blame people for their sins, everyone has to be a saint and there is no forgiveness. Calvinism at its best. Thou be damned!

Blamed for speeding? what a naughty boy!  Done it more than once!  Obviously a complete wrong'un!  Must have been the only person ever to consider getting someone to 'take his points'. Oh the ignominy and the awfulness of it. Cheated on his wife! Unheard of and never known anothercase in politics.....Have you? 'Sold himself to the Voters as a Family Man' as so many do....Don't they? Yes he was a bit stupid not to envisage the possible angle of the wronged women...........but he probably correctly thought his former wife was brighter than to incriminate herself and wreck the career of her best friend merely to damage him? Bad call, but fully justifies dumping the woman in first case. Had it occurred to you that she might have fabricated the whole thing to wreck his life? It certainly has to me.

Catholic/Orthodox reasoning: Acknowledge most people aren't saints and that we're all weak and to be pitied, then send them to confession. Ego te absolvo.

A much more human approach methinks, but one that has gone out of fashion in our modern world. It'll pain you to read it, carlton43 , but you, Sir, are a true Catholic*

*Or Orthodox, if you prefer - I don't mind.

My guilty secret of former Anglo Catholic bells and smells is out. Yes. Bang to rights Guv.  Nice analysis. And of course I don't mind.

[carlton43]

Oct 22, 2016 22:54:09 GMT baloo said:

Oct 22, 2016 14:00:27 GMT carlton43 said:

A 'Thread From the Past'. How nice. That reads quite well and I stand by it and by him.

Your first paragraph reads as a very young and rather innocent comment.........and a tad leftist?  Are you really a Conservative?  Blamed for speeding? what a naughty boy!  Done it more than once!  Obviously a complete wrong'un!  Must have been the only person ever to consider getting someone to 'take his points'. Oh the ignominy and the awfulness of it. Cheated on his wife! Unheard of and never known another case in politics.....Have you? 'Sold himself to the Voters as a Family Man' as so many do....Don't they? Yes he was a bit stupid not to envisage the possible angle of the wronged women...........but he probably correctly thought his former wife was brighter than to incriminate herself and wreck the career of her best friend merely to damage him? Bad call, but fully justifies dumping the woman in first case. Had it occurred to you that she might have fabricated the whole thing to wreck his life? It certainly has to me.

Speed limits are set by law and the law applies to all of us equally without exception. I find it really quite bizarre that you try to pin the blame for his stupid and inexcusable actions on the women in his life.

Oh  Neddie................You poor wee innocent.  Shall we enlighten him Grytpype.......................Or is he thin enough? 

Bizarre.......Nice word.  Do you still use them as fund raisers in the modern Conservative Party?

I do hope you are never asked to be a magistrate......Or anything else really!  Of course we blame the women in our lives. That is what they are for amongst other duties. And if you ever have my sort of experiences with them, you will stop posting this sort of pious, pompous, prickworthy nonsense.

[Deleted]

Oct 22, 2016 22:55:38 GMT baloo said:

Oct 22, 2016 21:16:30 GMT mrpastelito said:

Protestant reasoning: Blame people for their sins, everyone has to be a saint and there is no forgiveness. Calvinism at its best. Thou be damned!

Catholic/Orthodox reasoning: Acknowledge most people aren't saints and that we're all weak and to be pitied, then send them to confession. Ego te absolvo.

A much more human approach methinks, but one that has gone out of fashion in our modern world. It'll pain you to read it, carlton43 , but you, Sir, are a true Catholic*

*Or Orthodox, if you prefer - I don't mind.

In Catholicism forgiveness requires repentance. Huhne didn't repent, he tried to squirm out of responsibility by blaming others.

Penance requires not only repentance, but amendment of life and restitution,  which includes not only making good any harm you have done, so far as that lies in your power, but the payment of any temporal penalty due to you for your actions. Absolution by a priest is only conditional and absolutely dependent on those things being done.

EDIT: Non-Catholics often focus unduly on the "penance" - often, though not invariably, a sequence of prayers. Like all Christians, Catholics believe that the sacrifice of Christ on the cross is what made atonement for sin. The penance is intended merely to focus the penitent's attention on their sins, and what they need to do to obtain forgiveness for them.

[baloo]

Oct 22, 2016 23:13:47 GMT carlton43 said:

Oct 22, 2016 22:54:09 GMT baloo said:

Speed limits are set by law and the law applies to all of us equally without exception. I find it really quite bizarre that you try to pin the blame for his stupid and inexcusable actions on the women in his life.

Oh  Neddie................You poor wee innocent.  Shall we enlighten him Grytpype.......................Or is he thin enough? 

Bizarre.......Nice word.  Do you still use them as fund raisers in the modern Conservative Party?

I do hope you are never asked to be a magistrate......Or anything else really!  Of course we blame the women in our lives. That is what they are for amongst other duties. And if you ever have my sort of experiences with them, you will stop posting this sort of pious, pompous, prickworthy nonsense.

Have a nice day Carlton

[carlton43]

Oct 23, 2016 7:26:01 GMT baloo said:

Oct 22, 2016 23:13:47 GMT carlton43 said:

Oh  Neddie................You poor wee innocent.  Shall we enlighten him Grytpype.......................Or is he thin enough? 

Bizarre.......Nice word.  Do you still use them as fund raisers in the modern Conservative Party?

I do hope you are never asked to be a magistrate......Or anything else really!  Of course we blame the women in our lives. That is what they are for amongst other duties. And if you ever have my sort of experiences with them, you will stop posting this sort of pious, pompous, prickworthy nonsense.

Have a nice day Carlton

You too Baloo.     I have a way with words don't I?

Another day in another part of the forest. Here it is beautiful bright sunshine and perfect for joining The River Police.

[mrpastelito]

Oct 22, 2016 22:55:38 GMT baloo said:

Well yes - the LD Federal Executive didn't send him to confession

[mrpastelito]

Oct 23, 2016 6:54:14 GMT @goodoldcause said:

Oct 22, 2016 22:55:38 GMT baloo said:

In Catholicism forgiveness requires repentance. Huhne didn't repent, he tried to squirm out of responsibility by blaming others.

Penance requires not only repentance, but amendment of life and restitution,  which includes not only making good any harm you have done, so far as that lies in your power, but the payment of any temporal penalty due to you for your actions. Absolution by a priest is only conditional and absolutely dependent on those things being done.

Well yes... 10 Lord's Prayers and two decades of the Rosary will do, preferably contemplating the Agony in the Garden.

[carlton43]

Oct 22, 2016 22:55:38 GMT baloo said:

Oct 22, 2016 21:16:30 GMT mrpastelito said:

Protestant reasoning: Blame people for their sins, everyone has to be a saint and there is no forgiveness. Calvinism at its best. Thou be damned!

Catholic/Orthodox reasoning: Acknowledge most people aren't saints and that we're all weak and to be pitied, then send them to confession. Ego te absolvo.

A much more human approach methinks, but one that has gone out of fashion in our modern world. It'll pain you to read it, carlton43 , but you, Sir, are a true Catholic*

*Or Orthodox, if you prefer - I don't mind.

In Catholicism forgiveness requires repentance. Huhne didn't repent, he tried to squirm out of responsibility by blaming others.

Fuck repentance. Fuck Catholicism. Stupid prissy concept for wimps and nannies.

[finsobruce]

Nov 4, 2016 9:42:50 GMT carlton43 said:

Oct 22, 2016 22:55:38 GMT baloo said:

In Catholicism forgiveness requires repentance. Huhne didn't repent, he tried to squirm out of responsibility by blaming others.

Fuck repentance. Fuck Catholicism. Stupid prissy concept for wimps and nannies.

I'm sorry Carlton but we're going to have to ban you from taking part in Gymnastics for Great Britain for at least two months.

[carlton43]

Nov 4, 2016 9:45:27 GMT finsobruce said:

Nov 4, 2016 9:42:50 GMT carlton43 said:

Fuck repentance. Fuck Catholicism. Stupid prissy concept for wimps and nannies.

I'm sorry Carlton but we're going to have to ban you from taking part in Gymnastics for Great Britain for at least two months.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm!   I think my gymnastic days are not just over but way out of sight.  I loathed Gym and the teachers who in my day were often old sweats out of the Army and treated us like squaddies. I was frequently in their sights for 'lack of seriousness' and giving the minor field punishment of having to hang outward from the top of the wall bars with arms locked behind me and feet trailing. This was regarded as excruciating by most people, but for some reason I found it very relaxing and good for shoulders and the back. I complained and moaned of course! Thus he had the pleasure of regarding my pain and I spent most periods in quiet contemplation of the others dashing about on all the other equipment. One of my early tactical victories in life.