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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 2, 2016 23:49:52 GMT
Preston is already split, even if one of the constituencies is just called "Preston".
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Jun 2, 2016 23:55:56 GMT
Well, I perhaps should've specified I was referring to a more even split of Preston than at present. I don't like the current treatment of Poole, Middlesbrough or Ipswich in that regard either, but this solution may not be possible in those cases.
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Post by thirdchill on Jun 3, 2016 0:10:41 GMT
Those Bolton and Bury seats are fine (apart from Pendlebury), although linders and thirdchill aren't going to be happy with you. That split of Walkden and worsley area into 3 different seats I would certainly object to. Especially the splitting of Walkden into two different seats. The whole of Walkden did used to be in the Farnworth seat up until 1983 so the splitting there between walkden and worsley is a bit less problematic. |
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Post by longmonty on Jun 3, 2016 3:16:51 GMT
My proposal for this region, by sub-area in order from what I think will be the least contentious to most outrageous: OK if this is the least contentious, the rest should be interesting ... 
I don't understand why you have gone for so much disruption. I can see you are trying to bring the South Ribble suburbs in with Preston - but they are in a different council area after all, and the knock-on effects seem pretty severe. My scheme (up above on p12, sorry don't know how to make a link) shows you can have a compact seat for Preston itself and one for Blackburn, no need to split either town. And keep Burnley borough in one seat, and all of Rossendale in one seat. And no need to cross the Lancs boundary. 
Personally I also prefer my scheme for Manchester, with only 2 seats crossing the City boundary, rather than your 4; and only one seat crossing the Greater Manchester boundary (think you have at least 3?) - but clearly there are compromises/downsides with my scheme too!
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 3, 2016 7:00:27 GMT
I've never been to Rossendale, to be honest, so I have nothing against it. I suggest Bacup and environs for a first visit. If you think you've stumbled across the set of a horror film, then don't be surprised. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 3, 2016 11:20:22 GMT
longmonty, rename "Leyland" as South Ribble, and add "...and Winter Hill" to your Chorley, and that's got my seal of approval
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 3, 2016 12:14:24 GMT
What is the significance or importance of Winter Hill ?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 3, 2016 12:27:48 GMT
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 3, 2016 12:43:50 GMT
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Post by andrewteale on Jun 3, 2016 13:30:40 GMT
Winter Hill dominates the landscape in pretty much the whole of Cheshire and Lancashire. It's unmistakeable because of its sprawling humpback shape and the 1000-foot high TV mast on top of it (plus about six other transmission masts). Stand on the summit, and on a good day you can see four National Parks (Lake District, Yorkshire Dales, Peak District, Snowdonia) and the Isle of Man.
The TV mast itself is in Heath Charnock and Rivington ward, Chorley (by about 50 metres); but Blackburn with Darwen and Bolton have larger chunks of the hill (the summit is in Blackburn with Darwen).
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YL
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Post by YL on Jun 4, 2016 9:18:25 GMT
Here's yet another Lancashire proposal. It takes in a lot of ideas from various posts above, and in particular East Anglian Lefty 's discussion.  Lancaster & Morecambe (76,426). As in many other suggestions. North Lancashire (71,470). The inevitable monstrosity. I've kept it from going south of the Ribble, and have mostly used the Bowland watershed as its eastern boundary, but it seems hard to avoid including Longridge without making a mess of Preston. I'm sure doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ can come up with a better name. Blackpool North & Fleetwood (76,834). Includes Poulton-le-Fylde. Blackpool South (77,889). Contains so much of the town that I wonder about calling it just "Blackpool". Fylde (75,131). Still includes the Lea ward of Preston, but nothing else. Preston (75,041). Takes in Walton-le-Dale and Bamber Bridge to allow Fulwood to go into North Lancashire. Pendle & Bowland (77,467). Includes all the bits which are really part of Yorkshire. Burnley (72,972). Adds the Brierfield and Reedley wards of Pendle, and Read & Simonstone ward of Ribble Valley, which is well connected to Burnley via Padiham. Accrington (73,484). Loses its Rossendale wards, and gains the "Langho Strip" of Ribble Valley. Accrington is somewhere people have actually heard of, unlike "Hyndburn". Rossendale & Darwen (74,991). As discussed above, hard to get rid of in spite of its poor connections. Blackburn (72,816). As proposed several times. South Ribble (76,604). Chorley (78,287). Gains Eccleston & Mawdsley. West Lancashire (71,897). Gains Rufford. Calling it "Ormskirk" might give a better idea to the uninitiated as to where it is... If two West Lancashire district wards go into Southport as suggested by East Anglian Lefty , then simply transfer Eccleston & Mawdsley back to South Ribble, allowing Chorley to be unchanged. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 9:43:04 GMT
You could cheekily call that Wyre and Preston North but I suppose Lunesdale would feel left out.
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
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Post by Adrian on Jun 4, 2016 12:09:47 GMT
YL's plan is a good "best of" plan based on the various ideas that have been proposed so far. Keeping Hyndburn together is a definite plus. It would be great to get Fulwood out of the North Lancs seat but the consequences are far-reaching, and I don't think the people in Fulwood are that bothered.
North Lancs is probably the best name. "Lunesdale, Wyre & Preston North" and "Fulwood, Garstang & Lunesdale" are a bit of a mouthful, and remind people every time they hear them what a monstrosity it is!
Maybe the Preston seat should be "Preston & Walton".
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 4, 2016 13:50:47 GMT
YL's plan is a good "best of" plan based on the various ideas that have been proposed so far. Keeping Hyndburn together is a definite plus. It would be great to get Fulwood out of the North Lancs seat but the consequences are far-reaching, and I don't think the people in Fulwood are that bothered. North Lancs is probably the best name. "Lunesdale, Wyre & Preston North" and "Fulwood, Garstang & Lunesdale" are a bit of a mouthful, and remind people every time they hear them what a monstrosity it is! Maybe the Preston seat should be "Preston & Walton". "Valleys of Ribble and Lune" becomes more sensible by the day... |
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Post by islington on Jun 4, 2016 14:45:00 GMT
YL's plan is a good "best of" plan based on the various ideas that have been proposed so far. Keeping Hyndburn together is a definite plus. It would be great to get Fulwood out of the North Lancs seat but the consequences are far-reaching, and I don't think the people in Fulwood are that bothered. North Lancs is probably the best name. "Lunesdale, Wyre & Preston North" and "Fulwood, Garstang & Lunesdale" are a bit of a mouthful, and remind people every time they hear them what a monstrosity it is! Maybe the Preston seat should be "Preston & Walton". I agree it's similar to many schemes posted upthread, but I'd hesitate to say 'best of'. Its version of the N Lancs seat extends over four LAs, and previous suggestions show this is avoidable. Nice plan, though. |
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Post by lancastrian on Jun 4, 2016 15:27:28 GMT
Unfortunately it's not possible to make a nice map which restricts North Lancashire to three LAs and keeps both Burnley and Hyndburn whole.
Having Longridge in an East Lancs seat makes the numbers very tight, so I've ended up with a seat containing Clitheroe and Nelson (and Longridge) but none of the wards in between, which are split between Burnley and Hyndburn.
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Post by islington on Jun 5, 2016 9:35:33 GMT
Although I treat the whole of Lancs (and its associated UAs) as a 'group', with an entitlement of 14.06 = 14 seats, it seems helpful to have an E Lancs 'sub-group' within this, consisting of Blackburn w Darwen and everything east of it up to and including Ribble Valley. This combination has 379445 = 5.07 = 5 seats, and it can be further divided into two 'sub-sub-groups' (as it were): BwD + Rossendale = 147807 = 1.98 = 2 seats; and the rest = 231638 = 3.10, which is on the large side for 3 seats but can be done. This approach - essentially one of looking for combinations of LAs to which a whole number of seats can be assigned - I think is helpful because (a) it reduces unnecessary crossing of LA boundaries and (b) it makes it clear from the outset in which areas we need to aim for seats that tend to be above, or below, average size.
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Adrian
Co-operative Party
Posts: 1,742
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Post by Adrian on Jun 6, 2016 13:39:33 GMT
Cheshire and Manchester
Thanks to others for their work on this.
Single LAs: Rochdale (2), Oldham (2), Wigan (3)
Groups: Manchester, Bury, Bolton (9); Stockport, Tameside (5)
The rest (18)
Bolton N 73638
Bolton SW 76912
Bury 71594
Radcliffe & Farnworth 77546
Prestwich & Blackley 73013*
M. Central 71719*
- split ward Harpurhey. PDs HA.A/E/F/G/J (4094 voters)
M. Gorton 75101
M. Withington 75344
M. Wythenshawe 74315
Swinton & Worsley 74004
Salford & Eccles 73741
Stretford & Irlam 75804
- a small tribute to Islington. Of course there aren't many fans of seats that cross the MSC and I wouldn't normally recommend one, but I really don't think it's too bad compared with other possible configurations in this area.
Sale & Altrincham 77226
Tatton 74659
- The whole Cheshire/Salford/Trafford grouping is well below average electorate, and in the end the best solution seemed to be to add Lymm to this seat. The people in the town will be happy. There are many possible names for this seat: Tatton, Bucklow, Wilmslow & Knutsford, Bollin Vale...
Warrington N 71107
Warrington S 72174
Congleton 71287
Macclesfield 72751
- Locals can decide wthether this seat should include the Chelford villages or Alderley Edge.
Northwich 71931
- Finally a seat that contains all of Northwich! I'm sure it'll actually be called Weaver Vale because of the Runcorn wards.
Halton 78327
Ellesmere Port 73382
Crewe & Nantwich 72326
Eddisbury 73627
Chester 73723
Wirral 77137
Birkenhead 72957
Wallasey 74240
Makerfield 76131*
Leigh 78083*
- split ward Golborne Lowton West. PDs LGC, LGD (3134 voters).
Wigan 73783
Hazel Grove 76974*
Cheadle 74148*
- split ward Davenport. PDs SA SB SC (3255 voters).
Denton & Stockport N 76088
Ashton 77564
Stalybridge & Hyde 71050
- Includes Bredbury. An orphan ward to appease Andrew Gwynne, who doesn't want Denton to be split.
Heywood & Middleton 75880
Rochdale 72530
Oldham W 76684
Oldham E 77067
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Jun 12, 2016 23:22:50 GMT
My proposal for this region, by sub-area in order from what I think will be the least contentious to most outrageous: OK if this is the least contentious, the rest should be interesting ...
Well, here goes nothing: South West Lancs – 12 seats (-1) 
HAYDOCK (72,060 electors) Succeeds St Helens North.
PRESCOT EAST AND WHISTON (74,885) Succeeds St Helens South & Whiston. The town of Prescot deserves recognition in the name if it's going to continue to be split.
PRESCOT WEST AND KIRKBY (77,717) Succeeds Knowsley. Loses Roby and St Gabriels, gains Fazakerley.
FORMBY AND MAGHULL (71,925) Succeeds Sefton Central. Loses Blundellsands, gains Victoria and Aughton and Downholland.
SKELMERSDALE AND ORMSKIRK (71,783) Succeeds Lancashire West. Loses Aughton and Downholland, gains Rufford and Tarleton.
SOUTHPORT (71,391) Gains Hesketh-with-Becconsall and North Meols.
CROSBY AND BOOTLE (77,206) Succeeds Bootle. Loses Victoria, gains Blundellsands and Warbreck.
CROXTETH AND ANFIELD (77,375) Succeeds Liverpool West Derby, which would get confusing if there ends up being a 'Derby West' seat in the East Midlands. Loses Knotty Ash and Yew Tree, gains Anfield, Clubmoor, County and Kensington and Fairfield.
LIVERPOOL RIVERSIDE (76,886) Gains Everton, even though that ward isn't by the river.
LIVERPOOL WAVERTREE (77,742) Loses Kensington and Fairfield, gains Knotty Ash, Roby and Yew Tree. Indeed, an alternative name could be 'Childwall and Yew Tree'.
SPEKE AND WOOLTON (77,102) Succeeds Garston & Halewood. Gains St Gabriels.
WIDNES AND RUNCORN (78,327) Succeeds Halton. Gains Beechwood and Halton Lea, extending it further south of the River Mersey, making it a cross-county seat, but I'm including it in this sub-region anyway.
The seat effectively disappearing is Liverpool Walton.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jun 13, 2016 10:33:02 GMT
You really do not need that many seat crossing the Liverpool boundary. And if you choose to send Southport into Lancashire, there's no need for any change whatsoever in Knowsley.
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