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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Sept 30, 2016 15:58:31 GMT
As I'm doing a Cambridgeshire and Norfolk submission, I'll need to do Hertfordshire too if I want it to be taken seriously. After some thought, I've ended up with a plan that is identical to Pete Whitehead's in every respect except that I've put Walkern rather than Hertford Rural North into Stevenage, because that way I can say it moves a few hundred fewer electors. I wanted to get Carpender's Park out of Hertsmere, but putting it all in Watford causes fairly interminable knock-on effects and from a partisan point of view there isn't enough of South Oxhey in the ward for it to be desirable. I wanted to get Graveley into Stevenage and pull out of East Herts, but that leaves you a few hundred electors short and if you fix that by keeping Datchworth then you have the same problem with NE Herts. And I wanted to avoid a hideous carve-up north of Watford, but honestly I couldn't see a way round that and didn't care enough to keep searching. There are going to be some ugly Hertfordshire seats and there's not much you can do about it. EDIT: Actually, Rural North is smaller than Walkern, so exactly like Pete's plan. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 1, 2016 10:11:43 GMT
I'm entirely agnostic about the Walkern and Hertford Rural North wards. I prevaricated between both these options because basically both Stevenage and NE Herts look better with Walkern in them than HRN. Walkern has better links to Stevenage than HRN does but it also has better links to the remainder of NE Herts than HRN does. Basically HRN isn't a particularly good fit with either seat and ideally would be with Hertford but for the numbers to work it has to be in one of these. I therefore took the view that looking at the road links in Hertford Rural North they were better towards Stevenage than to neighbouring parts of NE Herts and therefore assigned it to Stevenage on that basis but I won't be manning the barricades over it. As you say it's a great shame that you can't put Chesfield into Stevenage and be done with it (well you said Graveley but I knew what you meant obviously)
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 2, 2016 12:50:42 GMT
On the other hand, putting Walkern in Stevenage makes that seat exactly the same as the BC proposals which may make it easier to sell and means that a total of 4 of 11 Herts seats will be identical to their plan. Hertford Rural North does look a bit out on a limb in NE Herts but at the end of the day people there will be in the same seat they've been in for the last 20 years and how many are going to notice or care if some of the road links to other parts of the seat are now in another constituency? Whereas moving them into Stevenage will likely cause some objections in the area - more than I would have thought you would get from Walkern, which is close enough to Stevenage to make objections difficult and which in any case was in the same constituency as Stevenage from 1974 until 2010
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 2, 2016 15:17:14 GMT
Mind you, it makes precisely no difference to any seats besides those two, so it's not going to undermine an entire submission. So we're probably overthinking this.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 2, 2016 23:39:30 GMT
If there is one aspect in which the Commission perhaps deserves praise, it's that in some regions they really can't be accused of overthinking things.
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 8, 2016 2:53:52 GMT
Alternative Suffolk (Felixstowe & Ipswich East) Waveney 77414 Suffolk Coastal 76171 Felixstowe & Ipswich East 77560 Ipswich West 71120 St Edmundsbury 71661 Forest Heath 76285 Babergh 76006  |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 10, 2016 16:57:32 GMT
That extension to the north is pretty ugly. You'd be better off keeping Priory Heath in Ipswich, because it's got more in common with Gainsborough than with Bixley or St Johns and it creates a fairly strong border. Alternatively you can keep the north-east and put the south-east wards (Priory Heath, Gainsborough and Holywells) in with Felixstowe, but it works best if you treat them as blocs to be kept together.
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 15, 2016 2:50:26 GMT
An alternative Hertfordshire with all of Welwyn Hatfield in 1 seat South West Hertfordshire 72404 Hemel Hempstead 73526 Watford 72878 Hertsmere 74831 St Albans 72916 Hitchin & Harpenden 72940 Welwyn Hatfield 73296 Stevenage 72152 North East Hertfordshire 71084 Hertford & Stortford 72539 Broxbourne 72664  |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 16, 2016 23:52:12 GMT
An alternative Hertfordshire & Cambridgeshire (excluding the 2 wards to Norfolk) South West Hertfordshire 72404 Hemel Hempstead 78498 Watford 77989 Hertsmere 76293 St Albans 71636 Welwyn Hatfield 74449 Cheshunt & Potters Bar 73330 Hertford & Hoddesdon 73179 Stevenage 73294 Hitchin & Letchworth 71767 North East Hertfordshire 75897 East Cambridgeshire 77868 Cambridge 72757 Mid Cambridgeshire 76529 Huntingdon 76438 North West Cambridgeshire 73781 Peterborough 77674 Fenland 76282  |
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Post by pepperminttea on Oct 17, 2016 19:31:41 GMT
An alternative Hertfordshire with all of Welwyn Hatfield in 1 seat South West Hertfordshire 72404 Hemel Hempstead 73526 Watford 72878 Hertsmere 74831 St Albans 72916 Hitchin & Harpenden 72940 Welwyn Hatfield 73296 Stevenage 72152 North East Hertfordshire 71084 Hertford & Stortford 72539 Broxbourne 72664 First post on this forum so I thought it should be about an area I know well: The problem with this is that putting Colney Heath in Hitchin and Harpenden is a really big no no as the areas are not even vaguely connected. Colney Heath really needs to be in St Albans as it is all St Albans suburbs. You could get away with putting it in Wewlyn Hatfield I suppose as you have done in your second plan but there is really no way that Sandridge can go into Wewlyn Hatfield though. In my opinion Sandridge really needs to be in the St Albans constituency as like Colney Heath it is entirely St Albans suburbs and the connection with Harpenden is dubious to say the least (only one long road links Sandridge to Wheathampstead). With the second plan I question the crossing with Cambridgeshire which are not at all necessary. Thus my suggestion for Hertfordshire starting with the commission's proposed boundaries are as follows (I couldn't work out how to add images so if someone could tell me how I would be very grateful  ): -St Albans gains Sandridge from Hitchin and Harpenden. -Watford gains Leavesden from St Albans. -Hitchin and Harpenden gains Codicote from Stevenage. -Stevenage gains Hertford Rural North from Wewlyn Hatfield. -Wewlyn Hatfield gains Northaw and Cuffley from Broxbourne. -Broxbourne gains the wards of Stanstead Abbots and Hertford Heath (yes an entirely separate place to Hertford proper) from Hertford and Stortford. -Hertford and Stortford gains Thundridge and Standon from North East Hertfordshire. -The rest remain unchanged. Ideally Hitchin and Harpenden would get the chop as it's a very odd seat but it's impossible to abolish without creating serious problems elsewhere. Harpenden doesn't really naturally fit into any seat though. Hope you found that at least somewhat helpful. |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 17, 2016 21:49:57 GMT
An alternative Hertfordshire with all of Welwyn Hatfield in 1 seat South West Hertfordshire 72404 Hemel Hempstead 73526 Watford 72878 Hertsmere 74831 St Albans 72916 Hitchin & Harpenden 72940 Welwyn Hatfield 73296 Stevenage 72152 North East Hertfordshire 71084 Hertford & Stortford 72539 Broxbourne 72664 First post on this forum so I thought it should be about an area I know well: The problem with this is that putting Colney Heath in Hitchin and Harpenden is a really big no no as the areas are not even vaguely connected. Colney Heath really needs to be in St Albans as it is all St Albans suburbs. You could get away with putting it in Wewlyn Hatfield I suppose as you have done in your second plan but there is really no way that Sandridge can go into Wewlyn Hatfield though. In my opinion Sandridge really needs to be in the St Albans constituency as like Colney Heath it is entirely St Albans suburbs and the connection with Harpenden is dubious to say the least (only one long road links Sandridge to Wheathampstead). With the second plan I question the crossing with Cambridgeshire which are not at all necessary. Thus my suggestion for Hertfordshire starting with the commission's proposed boundaries are as follows (I couldn't work out how to add images so if someone could tell me how I would be very grateful :) ): -St Albans gains Sandridge from Hitchin and Harpenden. -Watford gains Leavesden from St Albans. -Hitchin and Harpenden gains Codicote from Stevenage. -Stevenage gains Hertford Rural North from Wewlyn Hatfield. -Wewlyn Hatfield gains Northaw and Cuffley from Broxbourne. -Broxbourne gains the wards of Stanstead Abbots and Hertford Heath (yes an entirely separate place to Hertford proper) from Hertford and Stortford. -Hertford and Stortford gains Thundridge and Standon from North East Hertfordshire. -The rest remain unchanged. Ideally Hitchin and Harpenden would get the chop as it's a very odd seat but it's impossible to abolish without creating serious problems elsewhere. Harpenden doesn't really naturally fit into any seat though. Hope you found that at least somewhat helpful. If you're from Hertfordshire you should talk to Pete Whitehead |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 17, 2016 21:51:49 GMT
An alternative Hertfordshire with all of Welwyn Hatfield in 1 seat South West Hertfordshire 72404 Hemel Hempstead 73526 Watford 72878 Hertsmere 74831 St Albans 72916 Hitchin & Harpenden 72940 Welwyn Hatfield 73296 Stevenage 72152 North East Hertfordshire 71084 Hertford & Stortford 72539 Broxbourne 72664 With the second plan I question the crossing with Cambridgeshire which are not at all necessary. We have talked about the Cambridgeshire border cross upthread, the pro of this is that norfolk only takes 2 wards |
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Post by AdminSTB on Oct 17, 2016 22:06:31 GMT
An alternative Hertfordshire with all of Welwyn Hatfield in 1 seat South West Hertfordshire 72404 Hemel Hempstead 73526 Watford 72878 Hertsmere 74831 St Albans 72916 Hitchin & Harpenden 72940 Welwyn Hatfield 73296 Stevenage 72152 North East Hertfordshire 71084 Hertford & Stortford 72539 Broxbourne 72664 First post on this forum so I thought it should be about an area I know well: The problem with this is that putting Colney Heath in Hitchin and Harpenden is a really big no no as the areas are not even vaguely connected. Colney Heath really needs to be in St Albans as it is all St Albans suburbs. You could get away with putting it in Wewlyn Hatfield I suppose as you have done in your second plan but there is really no way that Sandridge can go into Wewlyn Hatfield though. In my opinion Sandridge really needs to be in the St Albans constituency as like Colney Heath it is entirely St Albans suburbs and the connection with Harpenden is dubious to say the least (only one long road links Sandridge to Wheathampstead). With the second plan I question the crossing with Cambridgeshire which are not at all necessary. Thus my suggestion for Hertfordshire starting with the commission's proposed boundaries are as follows (I couldn't work out how to add images so if someone could tell me how I would be very grateful ): -St Albans gains Sandridge from Hitchin and Harpenden. -Watford gains Leavesden from St Albans. -Hitchin and Harpenden gains Codicote from Stevenage. -Stevenage gains Hertford Rural North from Wewlyn Hatfield. -Wewlyn Hatfield gains Northaw and Cuffley from Broxbourne. -Broxbourne gains the wards of Stanstead Abbots and Hertford Heath (yes an entirely separate place to Hertford proper) from Hertford and Stortford. -Hertford and Stortford gains Thundridge and Standon from North East Hertfordshire. -The rest remain unchanged. Ideally Hitchin and Harpenden would get the chop as it's a very odd seat but it's impossible to abolish without creating serious problems elsewhere. Harpenden doesn't really naturally fit into any seat though. Hope you found that at least somewhat helpful. Welcome aboard! |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 18, 2016 21:19:01 GMT
With the second plan I question the crossing with Cambridgeshire which are not at all necessary. We have talked about the Cambridgeshire border cross upthread, the pro of this is that norfolk only takes 2 wards I'm not convinced this is necessarily a plus point. You've still breached a fairly meaningful boundary, and it means that the wards concerned are more isolated within the seat. Littleport will cope better than most areas, but it's still much better connected to Ely and environs than to Norfolk. And it's certainly better to shift more wards out if it less you avoid a second county boundary crossing. |
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Post by greatkingrat on Oct 18, 2016 22:39:00 GMT
Maybe we are trying to get rid of the wrong boundary crossing. Here is a 9 seat Norfolk with no boundary crossing  Norfolk North West (71876) Norfolk North (71219) Broadland (71724) Great Yarmouth (71807) Mid Norfolk (71986) Norfolk South East (72859) Norfolk South West (71294) Norwich North (71686) Norwich South (71310) |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 18, 2016 22:49:17 GMT
Maybe we are trying to get rid of the wrong boundary crossing. Here is a 9 seat Norfolk with no boundary crossing Norfolk North West (71876) Norfolk North (71219) Broadland (71724) Great Yarmouth (71807) Mid Norfolk (71986) Norfolk South East (72859) Norfolk South West (71294) Norwich North (71686) Norwich South (71310) Oh, nice, I'll be back in about 10 minutes with a new Norfolk-Cambridgeshire-Hertfordshire plan with Norfolk standalone |
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Post by AustralianSwingVoter on Oct 19, 2016 0:14:22 GMT
NORFOLK Great Yarmouth 71907 North East Norfolk 71252 North Norfolk 71931 Norwich North 71676 Norwich South 71776 South East Norfolk 71854 South Norfolk 72104 South West Norfolk 71385 North West Norfolk 71876  CAMBRIDGESHIRE & HERTFORDSHIRE North East Cambridgeshire 76309 Peterborough 77674 North West Cambridgeshire 78477 Huntingdon 76438 East Cambridgeshire 78198 Cambridge 77515 South Cambridgeshire 77004 North East Hertfordshire 73432 Hitchin & Letchworth 71767 Stevenage 71525 Hertford & Hoddesdon 73179 Cheshunt & Potters Bar 73330 Welwyn Hatfield 74449 St Albans 71636 Hertsmere 76293 Watford 77989 Hemel Hempstead 78498 South West Hertfordshire 72404  |
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Oct 19, 2016 4:41:16 GMT
Norwich North (71686) Norwich South (71310) The borders look fine, but the two Norwich seats seem to have been reoriented in such a way that the continued use of these names would be more difficult to justify. Mind you, that didn't stop the Commission where Derby is concerned... |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 19, 2016 9:20:25 GMT
NORFOLK Great Yarmouth 71907 North East Norfolk 71252 North Norfolk 71931 Norwich North 71676 Norwich South 71776 South East Norfolk 71854 South Norfolk 72104 South West Norfolk 71385 North West Norfolk 71876 CAMBRIDGESHIRE & HERTFORDSHIRE North East Cambridgeshire 76309 Peterborough 77674 North West Cambridgeshire 78477 Huntingdon 76438 East Cambridgeshire 78198 Cambridge 77515 South Cambridgeshire 77004 North East Hertfordshire 73432 Hitchin & Letchworth 71767 Stevenage 71525 Hertford & Hoddesdon 73179 Cheshunt & Potters Bar 73330 Welwyn Hatfield 74449 St Albans 71636 Hertsmere 76293 Watford 77989 Hemel Hempstead 78498 South West Hertfordshire 72404 That's quite an impressive effort actually. to manage to get 9 seats in Norfolk in quota. And it certainly solves the Harpenden problem discussed above while also reuniting Hitchin & Letchworth. Of course you end up splitting Broxbourne and Hertsmere which I don't personally see as a big problem, though others might all the Herts seats work pretty well and the Cambridgeshire ones too. I doubt it would go anywhere because it causes too much disruption to existing boundaries relative to the commission plan (which is unfortuantely a consideration, even when as in the case of Hitchin & Harpenden, existing boundaries are shit) |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 19, 2016 9:23:32 GMT
I did actually attempt a very similar plan to this for Hertfordshire but starting point was that I would not cross the county boundary. I therefore ended up with very similar seats to these but ran out of voters when it came to NE Herts. Obviously adding the South Cambs wards solves this problem, but for me this is something I want to avoid at almost any cost
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