carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 31, 2016 19:33:13 GMT
Here's a semi-serious, not-so-random first go at the dreaded Kent and East Sussex: What I've done is leave Dartford, Tunbridge Wells, and Shepway districts alone as they are in quota: Dartford 72180 Tunbridge Wells 76380 Folkestone and Hythe 77333 Then Dover, Thanet, Canterbury, and Swale group nicely for five constituencies (5.05 quotas): Dover 74928 Margate and Ramsgate 78130 Sittingbourne and Sheppey 75638 Herne Bay 75023 Canterbury 75660 And Medway, Maidstone, and Tonbridge and Malling also group nicely for another five (5.09 quotas): Maidstone 77925 Tonbridge and Malling 75286 Rochester and Strood 75606 Gillingham and Rainham 75283 Chatham and Leeds 76689 [bit sprawling, but couldn't resist the name!] Gravesham needs to gain just one ward from Sevenoaks to meet the quota: Gravesend 75208 This leaves both Sevenoaks (81,136 after losing Hartley and Hodsoll Street ward) and Ashford (86,610) over quota. The obvious thing to do is to move Edenbridge and Tenterden out into East Sussex: Sevenoaks 72944 Ashford 75135 East Sussex is a bodge. The districts have evil shapes and populations, and the interior doesn't seem to want to cohere well at all. And Brighton and Hove is clearly trying to ape Sheffield with its awful ward sizes. With the massive caveat that I obviously don't know what I'm doing, what I've drawn is: Brighton West and Hove 74716 Brighton North 71527 Brighton East and Newhaven 74929 Lewes and Hailsham 71365 Eastbourne 74670 Uckfield and Edenbridge 71971 Battle and Tenterden 71466 Hastings and Bexhill 71469 My first reaction is to like this. Those are both excellent points of contact and very good fits on the cross borders. The one truly awkward seat is Chatham and Leeds, in name, structure and effect. But hey, it makes Chatham near impossible for Conservatives to lose.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,056
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Post by Khunanup on Mar 31, 2016 20:31:16 GMT
Here's a semi-serious, not-so-random first go at the dreaded Kent and East Sussex: What I've done is leave Dartford, Tunbridge Wells, and Shepway districts alone as they are in quota: Dartford 72180 Tunbridge Wells 76380 Folkestone and Hythe 77333 Then Dover, Thanet, Canterbury, and Swale group nicely for five constituencies (5.05 quotas): Dover 74928 Margate and Ramsgate 78130 Sittingbourne and Sheppey 75638 Herne Bay 75023 Canterbury 75660 And Medway, Maidstone, and Tonbridge and Malling also group nicely for another five (5.09 quotas): Maidstone 77925 Tonbridge and Malling 75286 Rochester and Strood 75606 Gillingham and Rainham 75283 Chatham and Leeds 76689 [bit sprawling, but couldn't resist the name!] Gravesham needs to gain just one ward from Sevenoaks to meet the quota: Gravesend 75208 This leaves both Sevenoaks (81,136 after losing Hartley and Hodsoll Street ward) and Ashford (86,610) over quota. The obvious thing to do is to move Edenbridge and Tenterden out into East Sussex: Sevenoaks 72944 Ashford 75135 East Sussex is a bodge. The districts have evil shapes and populations, and the interior doesn't seem to want to cohere well at all. And Brighton and Hove is clearly trying to ape Sheffield with its awful ward sizes. With the massive caveat that I obviously don't know what I'm doing, what I've drawn is: Brighton West and Hove 74716 Brighton North 71527 Brighton East and Newhaven 74929 Lewes and Hailsham 71365 Eastbourne 74670 Uckfield and Edenbridge 71971 Battle and Tenterden 71466 Hastings and Bexhill 71469 That Hastings and Bexhill is pure pitchfork, brilliant stuff! You'd probably be thrilled to know that your East Sussex is also extremely anti-Labour. As for cross border Kent, you're right, in the south Tenterden and Edenbridge work.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Apr 1, 2016 0:22:38 GMT
Chatham and Leeds 76689 [bit sprawling, but couldn't resist the name!] East Sussex is a bodge. The districts have evil shapes and populations, and the interior doesn't seem to want to cohere well at all. I'd like to see how well 'Leeds' as a reference to the castle rather than the city would go down with the Commission! I would disagree with your assertion as to the nature of people living in rural East Sussex – to a certain extent, at least.
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Post by lennon on Apr 1, 2016 17:16:43 GMT
Haha, you know what I meant! In particular it's irritating that Brighton and Lewes adds up to 3.40 quotas (clearly not throwing enough of them on bonfires...). Or throwing too many of them on bonfires...
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Post by greenhert on Apr 13, 2016 20:19:01 GMT
My Hampshire proposals.
1. Portsmouth South. As the current Portsmouth South constituency plus Baffins ward. Electorate: 75,389. 2. Portsmouth North. As the current Portsmouth North constituency minus Baffins ward but plus the Havant wards of Purbrook and Bedhampton. Electorate: 73,934. 3. Havant & Waterloo. All Havant wards except for Purbrook and Bedhampton. Electorate: 77,882. 4. Gosport. Unchanged from current boundaries. Electorate: 72,357. 5. Fareham. Unchanged from current boundaries. Electorate: 75,724. 6. Southampton Itchen. As the current Southampton Itchen constituency plus Swaythling ward. Electorate: 74,516. 7. Southampton Test. As the current Southampton Test constituency plus Bassett ward. Electorate: 73,663. 8. Eastleigh. Unchanged from current boundaries. Electorate: 77,814. 9. New Forest West. As the current New Forest West constituency plus Boldre and Sway ward. Electorate: 71,289. 10. New Forest East. As the current New Forest East constituency minus Boldre and Sway ward, but plus the Test Valley ward of Chilworth, Nursling & Rownhams. Electorate: 71,844. 11. Romsey & Chandler's Ford. The Eastleigh wards of Hiltingbury East/West, and Chandler's Ford East/West, plus the Winchester wards of Compton & Otterbourne and Wonston & Micheldever, and all Test Valley wards except for Chilworth, Nursing & Rownhams, Bourne Valley, Alamein, and Andover's wards of St Mary's, Winton, Millway, Harroway and Charlton. Electorate: 75,601. 12. Winchester. All Winchester wards except for Compton & Otterbourne and Wonston & Micheldever. Electorate: 78,172. 13. Petersfield. All East Hampshire wards except for all the Alton wards and Holybourne & Froyle. Electorate: 72,314. 14. Alton. All Hart wards except for Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot, plus the East Hampshire wards of Holybourne & Froyle and Alton (all), plus the Basingstoke & Deane ward of Upton Gray & The Candovers. Electorate: 71,949. 15. Aldershot. The entire Rushmoor district plus the Hart wards of Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot. Electorate: 74,715. 16. Andover. As the current North West Hampshire constituency minus the wards of Anna, Amport, and Perton Bellinger, but plus the Basingstoke & Deane wards of Sherborne St John, Bramley & Sherfield, and Pamber & Silchester. Electorate: 78,317. 17. Basingstoke. Unchanged from current boundaries. ELectorate: 78,026.
Meon Valley constituency is the disappearing constituency under these proposals, with its territory being split between Winchester, Petersfield, and Havant & Waterloo.
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Post by greatkingrat on Apr 13, 2016 20:39:06 GMT
Bedhampton ward looks like it belongs with Havant. Probably would be better to include Stakes ward in Portsmouth North instead.
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Apr 13, 2016 21:29:32 GMT
3. Havant & Waterloo. All Havant wards except for Purbrook and Bedhampton. Electorate: 77,882. 6. Southampton Itchen. As the current Southampton Itchen constituency plus Swaythling ward. Electorate: 74,516. 7. Southampton Test. As the current Southampton Test constituency plus Bassett ward. Electorate: 73,663. 9. New Forest West. As the current New Forest West constituency plus Boldre and Sway ward. Electorate: 71,289. 10. New Forest East. As the current New Forest East constituency minus Boldre and Sway ward, but plus the Test Valley ward of Chilworth, Nursling & Rownhams. Electorate: 71,844. 11. Romsey & Chandler's Ford. The Eastleigh wards of Hiltingbury East/West, and Chandler's Ford East/West, plus the Winchester wards of Compton & Otterbourne and Wonston & Micheldever, and all Test Valley wards except for Chilworth, Nursing & Rownhams, Bourne Valley, Alamein, and Andover's wards of St Mary's, Winton, Millway, Harroway and Charlton. Electorate: 75,601. 13. Petersfield. All East Hampshire wards except for all the Alton wards and Holybourne & Froyle. Electorate: 72,314. 14. Alton. All Hart wards except for Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot, plus the East Hampshire wards of Holybourne & Froyle and Alton (all), plus the Basingstoke & Deane ward of Upton Gray & The Candovers. Electorate: 71,949. 15. Aldershot. The entire Rushmoor district plus the Hart wards of Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot. Electorate: 74,715. 16. Andover. As the current North West Hampshire constituency minus the wards of Anna, Amport, and Perton Bellinger, but plus the Basingstoke & Deane wards of Sherborne St John, Bramley & Sherfield, and Pamber & Silchester. Electorate: 78,317. Meon Valley constituency is the disappearing constituency under these proposals, with its territory being split between Winchester, Petersfield, and Havant & Waterloo. Let's get the minor quibbles out of the way first. I don't agree with the continued use of rivers in the Southampton seats. Aldershot should probably be renamed 'Aldershot & Farnborough'. I can't accept 'Alton' because I want to rename my plan's successor to Staffordshire Moorlands as 'Alton Towers'. Even with the removal of Meon Valley – which nobody could be unhappy about – it seems that one seat in Hampshire will always still end up as a bit of a mess. In your proposal, this is clearly 'Romsey & Chandler's Ford'. It might look better on a map than it sounds, though. That said, it's again excellent work overall. 'Petersfield' and 'Andover' are major improvements on their current equivalents, as is 'Havant & Waterloo[ville]'. If we're going with names of local football teams, then New Forest West could become 'Lymington & New Milton'. New Forest East would then have to be renamed either simply 'New Forest' or something like 'Brockenhurst & Totton'.
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Apr 13, 2016 21:37:24 GMT
3. Havant & Waterloo. All Havant wards except for Purbrook and Bedhampton. Electorate: 77,882. 6. Southampton Itchen. As the current Southampton Itchen constituency plus Swaythling ward. Electorate: 74,516. 7. Southampton Test. As the current Southampton Test constituency plus Bassett ward. Electorate: 73,663. 9. New Forest West. As the current New Forest West constituency plus Boldre and Sway ward. Electorate: 71,289. 10. New Forest East. As the current New Forest East constituency minus Boldre and Sway ward, but plus the Test Valley ward of Chilworth, Nursling & Rownhams. Electorate: 71,844. 11. Romsey & Chandler's Ford. The Eastleigh wards of Hiltingbury East/West, and Chandler's Ford East/West, plus the Winchester wards of Compton & Otterbourne and Wonston & Micheldever, and all Test Valley wards except for Chilworth, Nursing & Rownhams, Bourne Valley, Alamein, and Andover's wards of St Mary's, Winton, Millway, Harroway and Charlton. Electorate: 75,601. 13. Petersfield. All East Hampshire wards except for all the Alton wards and Holybourne & Froyle. Electorate: 72,314. 14. Alton. All Hart wards except for Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot, plus the East Hampshire wards of Holybourne & Froyle and Alton (all), plus the Basingstoke & Deane ward of Upton Gray & The Candovers. Electorate: 71,949. 15. Aldershot. The entire Rushmoor district plus the Hart wards of Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot. Electorate: 74,715. 16. Andover. As the current North West Hampshire constituency minus the wards of Anna, Amport, and Perton Bellinger, but plus the Basingstoke & Deane wards of Sherborne St John, Bramley & Sherfield, and Pamber & Silchester. Electorate: 78,317. Meon Valley constituency is the disappearing constituency under these proposals, with its territory being split between Winchester, Petersfield, and Havant & Waterloo. Let's get the minor quibbles out of the way first. I don't agree with the continued use of rivers in the Southampton seats. Aldershot should probably be renamed 'Aldershot & Farnborough'. I can't accept 'Alton' because I want to rename my plan's successor to Staffordshire Moorlands as 'Alton Towers'. Even with the removal of Meon Valley – which nobody could be unhappy about – it seems that one seat in Hampshire will always still end up as a bit of a mess. In your proposal, this is clearly 'Romsey & Chandler's Ford'. It might look better on a map than it sounds, though. That said, it's again excellent work overall. 'Petersfield' and 'Andover' are major improvements on their current equivalents, as is 'Havant & Waterloo[ville]'. If we're going with names of local football teams, then New Forest West could become 'Lymington & New Milton'. New Forest East would then have to be renamed either simply 'New Forest' or something like 'Brockenhurst & Totton'. Lymington & New Milton changed their name (back, though it's complicated) to New Milton Town almost ten years ago. Totton & Eling rather than Brockenhurst?
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Foggy
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Post by Foggy on Apr 13, 2016 21:42:40 GMT
Lymington & New Milton changed their name (back, though it's complicated) to New Milton Town almost ten years ago. Totton & Eling rather than Brockenhurst? Thanks for that piece of up-to-date information! When I saw them play in an FA Vase tie at Taunton in the late 1990s, that is what they were known as, so that name probably sticks in my mind the most. Brockenhurst is tiny, true, but it has the only railway stop between Southampton and Bournemouth on cross-country trains.
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Post by islington on Apr 14, 2016 12:13:18 GMT
Just a couple of quick comments and suggestions on greenhert's Hampshire plan -
It's surely the right decision to get rid of Meon Valley but this means that E Hants needs to migrate south, which it turn raises the question of what to do with Alton. It's workable to take it out of the seat, as greenhart proposes, but it's not especially pretty, it's not in the spirit of 'least change', and it creates awkward consequential changes elsewhere.
I'd therefore suggest retaining it in E Hants, but losing Four Marks, Downland and Holybourne wards instead. I know this leaves Alton town as a very awkward spur on the E Hants seat (indeed, looking very like an actual spur) but it's going to be awkwardly placed whichever seat you put it in and this arrangement allows fewer changes and more natural boundaries elsewhere in the northern half of Hampshire.
A couple of other points:
The Crookham wards, going by their names, sound like two halves of a distinct village. But in reality, they are the southern part of the town of Fleet and they ought not to be separated from it. Putting a boundary between the Yateley wards, although hardly ideal, is definitely the lesser evil and Yateley village proper is definitely centred in the Yateley E ward; so I recommend that Aldershot should expand to the north, not the west.
NW Hants gains the whole of Sherborne St John (currently mostly in NE Hants) and loses only the one ward near Andover (Anna - and who dreams up these names?) rather than three as greenhert suggests, thus keeping Andover much better nested in the seat. Romsey can therefore afford to take a rather more coherent bloc of wards north of Winchester (Wonston, Kings Worthy, Littleton, Sparsholt), with Compton staying in Winchester. And I'd keep the name as 'Romsey', which has a long history behind it; brevity is a virtue, and we don't want names to degenerate into a mere catalogue of all the places in the seat. (But 'W Hants' would be a serviceable alternative, if preferred.)
I have to agree with GKR that Stakes, not Bedhampton, should reinforce Portsmouth N.
Finally, as reinforcement for Southampton Itchen I suggest Bevoir would be better than Swaythling.
This gives us
NORTH WEST HAMPSHIRE: 75879 NORTH WEST HAMPSHIRE: 75296 ROMSEY: 74449 WINCHESTER: 73903 EAST HAMPSHIRE: 77003 HAVANT: 77739 PORTSMOUTH NORTH: 74077 SOUTHAMPTON ITCHEN: 75474 SOUTHAMPTON TEST: 72705
Everything else as greenhert had it.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,056
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Post by Khunanup on Apr 14, 2016 12:40:27 GMT
3. Havant & Waterloo. All Havant wards except for Purbrook and Bedhampton. Electorate: 77,882. 6. Southampton Itchen. As the current Southampton Itchen constituency plus Swaythling ward. Electorate: 74,516. 7. Southampton Test. As the current Southampton Test constituency plus Bassett ward. Electorate: 73,663. 9. New Forest West. As the current New Forest West constituency plus Boldre and Sway ward. Electorate: 71,289. 10. New Forest East. As the current New Forest East constituency minus Boldre and Sway ward, but plus the Test Valley ward of Chilworth, Nursling & Rownhams. Electorate: 71,844. 11. Romsey & Chandler's Ford. The Eastleigh wards of Hiltingbury East/West, and Chandler's Ford East/West, plus the Winchester wards of Compton & Otterbourne and Wonston & Micheldever, and all Test Valley wards except for Chilworth, Nursing & Rownhams, Bourne Valley, Alamein, and Andover's wards of St Mary's, Winton, Millway, Harroway and Charlton. Electorate: 75,601. 13. Petersfield. All East Hampshire wards except for all the Alton wards and Holybourne & Froyle. Electorate: 72,314. 14. Alton. All Hart wards except for Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot, plus the East Hampshire wards of Holybourne & Froyle and Alton (all), plus the Basingstoke & Deane ward of Upton Gray & The Candovers. Electorate: 71,949. 15. Aldershot. The entire Rushmoor district plus the Hart wards of Crookham East and Crookham West & Ewshot. Electorate: 74,715. 16. Andover. As the current North West Hampshire constituency minus the wards of Anna, Amport, and Perton Bellinger, but plus the Basingstoke & Deane wards of Sherborne St John, Bramley & Sherfield, and Pamber & Silchester. Electorate: 78,317. Meon Valley constituency is the disappearing constituency under these proposals, with its territory being split between Winchester, Petersfield, and Havant & Waterloo. Let's get the minor quibbles out of the way first. I don't agree with the continued use of rivers in the Southampton seats. Aldershot should probably be renamed 'Aldershot & Farnborough'. I can't accept 'Alton' because I want to rename my plan's successor to Staffordshire Moorlands as 'Alton Towers'. Even with the removal of Meon Valley – which nobody could be unhappy about – it seems that one seat in Hampshire will always still end up as a bit of a mess. In your proposal, this is clearly 'Romsey & Chandler's Ford'. It might look better on a map than it sounds, though. That said, it's again excellent work overall. 'Petersfield' and 'Andover' are major improvements on their current equivalents, as is 'Havant & Waterloo[ville]'. If we're going with names of local football teams, then New Forest West could become 'Lymington & New Milton'. New Forest East would then have to be renamed either simply 'New Forest' or something like 'Brockenhurst & Totton'. Havant & Waterloo is the old name of the seat from when it last had the centre of Waterlooville in it.
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,056
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Post by Khunanup on Apr 14, 2016 12:50:58 GMT
I'm surprised so many plans are continuing to want to split Waterlooville unnecessarily rather that put the coherant community of Portchester in with Portsmouth North. If you want seats that reflect communities, continuing to split off the south of Winchester district from the city itself is the way to go. Along with Test Valley, Winchester district council is the most incoherant council area in Hampshire. It shouldn't be regarded as something to preserve in parliamentary boundaries, especially in the south of it's area.
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Post by islington on Apr 14, 2016 13:08:54 GMT
Well, to answer Khunanup's question:
I can't speak for others but in my case, I'm trying to respect LA boundaries as far as I can. And on this basis, it's noticeable that Portsmouth and Havant together are the right size for three seats and I've suggested boundaries accordingly.
It may well be that the current LA boundaries aren't very satisfactory in this area. But I don't think that's the point. This exercise is about drawing Parliamentary seats; there's a separate process for recommending changes in LA boundaries.
Portchester is currently in Fareham, so including it in a Portsmouth seat would involve an additional boundary crossing, besides meaning unnecessary alterations to a seat that's currently within range and can be left as it is.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 14, 2016 20:17:15 GMT
"Bays of Herne and Sandwich" is a brilliant name sounds like an obscure 60s psychedelic album. I was thinking Days of Pearly Spencer.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Apr 14, 2016 20:20:08 GMT
Combining the whole of CF with Romsey would definitely work as a coherent area. The links between the two are good and there is a lot of crossover,particularly because Valley Park comes under Test Valley.
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Post by minionofmidas on Apr 14, 2016 20:50:31 GMT
I'm surprised so many plans are continuing to want to split Waterlooville unnecessarily rather that put the coherant community of Portchester in with Portsmouth North. If you want seats that reflect communities, continuing to split off the south of Winchester district from the city itself is the way to go. Along with Test Valley, Winchester district council is the most incoherant council area in Hampshire. It shouldn't be regarded as something to preserve in parliamentary boundaries, especially in the south of it's area. And Winchester constituency is the most versatile constituency in England (to never change its name). Someone ought to make a gif sometime.
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Post by finsobruce on Apr 14, 2016 23:46:29 GMT
sounds like an obscure 60s psychedelic album. I was thinking Days of Pearly Spencer. The race is almost run...
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Post by lennon on Apr 15, 2016 6:59:05 GMT
Combining the whole of CF with Romsey would definitely work as a coherent area. The links between the two are good and there is a lot of crossover,particularly because Valley Park comes under Test Valley. Even better if you also include Eastleigh town. (that part of Eastleigh Borough West of the Itchen, which provides a natural boundary)
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Apr 15, 2016 7:42:30 GMT
Something like this ? Seems to work quite well
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Post by lennon on Apr 15, 2016 8:47:08 GMT
Something like this ? Seems to work quite well Basically, yes. Although I called the other seat it creates 'Hedge End and Bishops Waltham' instead of Hamble, but in principle. (Although I agree with Khunanup about adding Portchester to Portsmouth North instead of taking from Havant - far more logical in terms of natural communities).
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