Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,028
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Post by Sibboleth on Oct 26, 2015 0:42:41 GMT
Most peculiar Korwin is so high amongst 18-29 year olds. Assume the social attitudes of young people in Poland are much different to what we're used to here in the UK? Alternatively it could be noted that all four of the more established parties (PiS, PO, SLD and PSL) poll relatively poorly with the young and that the alternative parties (of whatever shade) poll notably better. This would suggest that young Poles know a racket when they see one. |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 26, 2015 0:43:40 GMT
Poland hasn't really had a left wing party to speak of. Perhaps there will be space for a genuinely independent one to develop.
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 26, 2015 0:46:01 GMT
Most peculiar Korwin is so high amongst 18-29 year olds. Assume the social attitudes of young people in Poland are much different to what we're used to here in the UK? Alternatively it could be noted that all four of the more established parties (PiS, PO, SLD and PSL) poll relatively poorly with the young and that the alternative parties (of whatever shade) poll notably better. This would suggest that young Poles know a racket when they see one. Most young Poles don't vote at all. The Poles I have known- mostly gay - came here to escape the censorious attitudes and either didn't vote or opted for Tusk who is at least competent and socially liberal |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813 
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 26, 2015 1:47:57 GMT
A "late poll" sees PiS down at 38% and 238/460 seats, PSL clearly above 5% - so PiSes OverallMajority depends on the fate of a neoliberal raven.
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 26, 2015 15:46:51 GMT
Poland hasn't really had a left wing party to speak of. I think there was a party called the Polish United Workers Party that had some influence from 1948 to 1989. Post-Soviet era there has never really been the development of a left wing party which isn't dominated by the ex Soviet old guard. Which isn't the case in other Eastern European countries |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 26, 2015 16:32:04 GMT
I think there was a party called the Polish United Workers Party that had some influence from 1948 to 1989. Post-Soviet era there has never really been the development of a left wing party which isn't dominated by the ex Soviet old guard. Which isn't the case in other Eastern European countries I broadly agree. There have been reasonably clean slates in most of them bar Poland. The exception being maybe Hungary, where the Communists were going off message long before. |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 26, 2015 21:16:35 GMT
Post-Soviet era there has never really been the development of a left wing party which isn't dominated by the ex Soviet old guard. Which isn't the case in other Eastern European countries I broadly agree. There have been reasonably clean slates in most of them bar Poland. The exception being maybe Hungary, where the Communists were going off message long before. It was more lies and corruption in Hungary with regard to their last Socialist government - but that doesn't excuse them electing Fidesz. I find it amusing that they started life as a left wing Liberal party. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306
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Post by maxque on Oct 26, 2015 22:34:15 GMT
It was more lies and corruption in Hungary with regard to their last Socialist government - but that doesn't excuse them electing Fidesz. You're right that doesn't excuse the Hungarians electing Fidesz. Now Victor Orban's determination to resist Mrs Merkel's ambition of turning the nations of Europe into international doss houses, that on the other hand not only excuses but easily justifies electing Fidesz. He only resists that ambition because he is a wannabe dictator (like his model Putin), which he can't do while being in EU. Hungarians should be grateful for being in EU, else, they would already be a dictatorship with fake elections, like Belarus. |
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Post by Andrew_S on Oct 26, 2015 22:38:28 GMT
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306
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Post by maxque on Oct 26, 2015 22:42:12 GMT
He only resists that ambition because he is a wannabe dictator (like his model Putin), which he can't do while being in EU. Hungarians should be grateful for being in EU, else, they would already be a dictatorship with fake elections, like Belarus. Would you rather live in an international doss house? Well, at least, in a democrary, I could vote out and protest a government trying to transform my country into one, which I couldn't do in a dictatorship (and, if unlucky, I would end in jail for being an opponent). |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 26, 2015 23:30:47 GMT
He only resists that ambition because he is a wannabe dictator (like his model Putin), which he can't do while being in EU. Hungarians should be grateful for being in EU, else, they would already be a dictatorship with fake elections, like Belarus. Would you rather live in an international doss house? Absolutely And I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country run by Gauleiter Orban Incidentally those with the resourcefulness and tenacity to make it to Europe from the war zones will almost definitely be assets to any country they live in and intend to work hard and succeed. That's why they risk their lives to do so. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 26, 2015 23:40:03 GMT
It seems the right think Hungary is now a paragon of law and order, and the left think it's a sinister police state now.
Neither are anywhere like the truth. There is no Orban cult of personality on the streets or television. Equally, Orban plays the strongman card but Budapest's centre is filled with unconvincing panhandlers.
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 26, 2015 23:57:46 GMT
The official percentages: 37.58 PiS, 24.09 PO, 8.81 Kukiz, 7.60 Nowocz., 5.13 PSL; 7.55 ZLew., 4.76 Korwin, 3.62 Razem. SeatDistribution is esoterical - proclaimed to us neophysites tomorrow -, but PiS should be minimally below 230/460.
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 27, 2015 13:38:35 GMT
.en.wikipedia. has these MP-Numbers: PiS 235, PO 138, K 42, N 27, PSL 17, ... 1. The first OverallMajority! Yet, it is bad for PiS, I'd say: Considering the many defections even in opposition, that majority is surely insufficient. But a CoalitionDeal right now would be seen as weakness. Most likely is either a support by Kukiz'15 or a coalition with PSL, isn't it?
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 27, 2015 23:56:49 GMT
It seems the right think Hungary is now a paragon of law and order, and the left think it's a sinister police state now. Neither are anywhere like the truth. There is no Orban cult of personality on the streets or television. Equally, Orban plays the strongman card but Budapest's centre is filled with unconvincing panhandlers. Orban has passed some pretty awful laws which make it more difficult for an Opposition party to beat him. It would be hard to argue he isnt very authoritarian. But truth is that the opposition is still a disorganised mess. |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 28, 2015 17:19:45 GMT
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 28, 2015 17:23:58 GMT
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 28, 2015 19:35:53 GMT
SENAT:   UKIP gain Canada by the looks of things... |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,813
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 28, 2015 20:59:20 GMT
I must be pleased, that this time the pre1918-BorderLine is less present, because drawing actual maps with certain historical borders is forbidden in Germany...
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Post by iainbhx on Oct 28, 2015 23:04:40 GMT
I must be pleased, that this time the pre1918-BorderLine is less present, because drawing actual maps with certain historical borders is forbidden in Germany... I didn't know that. You mean the sort that are reflected by the now excluded stanza of the Deutschlandlied? Von der Maas bis an die Memel, Von der Etsch bis an den Belt |
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