Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,035
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Post by Sibboleth on Sept 27, 2014 18:26:55 GMT
It begins!  |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 10, 2014 11:17:32 GMT
80% vote for Yes-Yes.
Turnout about 36-41%. Most No voters boycotted it.
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johnr
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 1,944 
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Post by johnr on Nov 10, 2014 12:30:05 GMT
This type of referendum would be most Yessers wet dream. Polling places staffed by volunteers from the pro-independence campaign. Ballot Boxes made of cardboard and not sealed. Counted by pro-independence volunteers. No external scrutiny. etc. etc.
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,589
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Post by cibwr on Nov 11, 2014 9:18:48 GMT
This type of referendum would be most Yessers wet dream. Polling places staffed by volunteers from the pro-independence campaign. Ballot Boxes made of cardboard and not sealed. Counted by pro-independence volunteers. No external scrutiny. etc. etc. Yet no one is seriously suggesting that the vote was anything other than free and fair. The Spanish authorities are adopting the ostrich position while threatening prosecution. The more right wing elements are calling for the arrest of the Catalan President and the suspension of Catalan autonomy. I suspect we will have a one issue general election in Catalonia - which will be won by the nationalists, and then the shit will hit the fan. |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Nov 11, 2014 9:46:22 GMT
This type of referendum would be most Yessers wet dream. Polling places staffed by volunteers from the pro-independence campaign. Ballot Boxes made of cardboard and not sealed. Counted by pro-independence volunteers. No external scrutiny. etc. etc. Yet no one is seriously suggesting that the vote was anything other than free and fair. The Spanish authorities are adopting the ostrich position while threatening prosecution. The more right wing elements are calling for the arrest of the Catalan President and the suspension of Catalan autonomy. I suspect we will have a one issue general election in Catalonia - which will be won by the nationalists, and then the shit will hit the fan. That is broadly what happened in 2012 but with a background dose of the economy. This time, however, it'll be the left wing nationalists who lose out. |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,312
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Post by maxque on Nov 11, 2014 10:35:05 GMT
The poor bits of the rich province voted yes. If they push the matter, the rich bits of the rich province might agree that the province should be independent, but partition themselves from it and remain with the homeland. It could happen in Spain as well. Oh, no, the rich bits wants independence too. CiU base is rich people. We are in a Flanders situation there. Rich people want to keep the money there, not sent it to poorer provinces. Like in Flanders. Rich Flanders wants to get rid of poor Wallonia. |
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Post by mrhell on Nov 11, 2014 11:26:49 GMT
Remains me of Souter's referendum and probably should be taken as seriously.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Nov 11, 2014 14:14:49 GMT
That is broadly what happened in 2012 but with a background dose of the economy. This time, however, it'll be the left wing nationalists who lose out. I'm not so sure about that - the last time I looked, ERC were ahead in the polls (although with only 23% of the vote) so it looks like the momentum is with them. CiU are currently mired in corruption scandals. Mas can get out of that though. I don't pay as much attention to the Catalan media as I would like but it seems that the anti-Pujol wave that engulfed him in August is receding. Give the CiU time, he's got two years. There doesn't seem to be a drive for a referendum in the Basque area. They're oddly quiet at the moment. |
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 11, 2014 14:34:12 GMT
I wonder if we could see this sort of exercise in the UK at some point in the next few years? I think that both main parties should make it absolutely clear that any UK government will not countenance another Scottish referendum for a generation, but if the SNP stay in power at Holyrood might they organise a stunt like this? I'm looking forward to the SNP holding the balance of power in Westminster and having an even bigger majority in Holyrood, and then unionists saying it has no mandate to deliver a referendum that will have been in its election manifestos.  |
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Post by AdminSTB on Nov 11, 2014 15:21:24 GMT
I'm looking forward to the SNP holding the balance of power in Westminster and having an even bigger majority in Holyrood, and then unionists saying it has no mandate to deliver a referendum that will have been in its election manifestos. I would hope that, in the event of the SNP holding the balance at Westminster, both big parties would agree to put the country first and throw a patriotic 'cordon sanitaire' around the Nats. And if you think a Neverendum strategy is the way forward, have a look at how the Parti Quebecois did in the last Quebec National Assembly elections........ A grand Lab-Con coalition with Alex Salmond as leader of the opposition would also suit me very well in the long run. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 19:51:50 GMT
I would hope that, in the event of the SNP holding the balance at Westminster, both big parties would agree to put the country first and throw a patriotic 'cordon sanitaire' around the Nats. And if you think a Neverendum strategy is the way forward, have a look at how the Parti Quebecois did in the last Quebec National Assembly elections........ A grand Lab-Con coalition with Alex Salmond as leader of the opposition would also suit me very well in the long run. *cleans glasses very slowly* |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 11, 2014 20:53:59 GMT
I'm looking forward to the SNP holding the balance of power in Westminster and having an even bigger majority in Holyrood, and then unionists saying it has no mandate to deliver a referendum that will have been in its election manifestos. I would hope that, in the event of the SNP holding the balance at Westminster, both big parties would agree to put the country first and throw a patriotic 'cordon sanitaire' around the Nats. And if you think a Neverendum strategy is the way forward, have a look at how the Parti Quebecois did in the last Quebec National Assembly elections........ I don't think you'd need a cordon sanitaire. You can't trust the SNP not to bring down a government at the drop of a hat if they think it might strengthen their position, so they'd be excluded for reasons of simple pragmatism. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,795
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Post by john07 on Nov 11, 2014 22:17:14 GMT
I would hope that, in the event of the SNP holding the balance at Westminster, both big parties would agree to put the country first and throw a patriotic 'cordon sanitaire' around the Nats. And if you think a Neverendum strategy is the way forward, have a look at how the Parti Quebecois did in the last Quebec National Assembly elections........ I don't think you'd need a cordon sanitaire. You can't trust the SNP not to bring down a government at the drop of a hat if they think it might strengthen their position, so they'd be excluded for reasons of simple pragmatism. We should all know that from the evidence of 1979. |
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Post by johnloony on Nov 12, 2014 0:50:07 GMT
*cleans glasses very slowly* Er, is that the Alec Guinness version of "gets popcorn"? |
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johnr
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 1,944
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Post by johnr on Nov 14, 2014 9:52:27 GMT
Lets look at this logically. The SNP could never support the Tories - they know that would spell electoral suicide, even if they've managed it carefully in the recent past (2007 -11 anyone?).
So that leaves supporting Labour. If they make unreasonable demands (and Salmond is already showing his megalomaniac tendencies here) then they can reject it, knowing that the SNP would be forced to back down - because if the result was putting in the tories, they would be demolished (see above).
The SNP are in a no-win situation at Westminster, no matter how many MPs they get.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 28, 2014 4:37:45 GMT
Have the followers of Eck's great cult taken to the streets to demand Andrew Neil's head yet? He (Eck) was taken to the cleaners by Neil last night.
Refreshing to see one journalist actually stand their ground in the face of empty posturing.
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