|
|
Post by irish observer on Jun 28, 2013 12:15:27 GMT
Whilst I am sympathetic to the idea of unicameral parliaments, I would go along with IrishObserver in that it would need more powers at local level to make this feasible. As things stand, I would reluctantly oppose the abolition of the Seanad but only if I could be convinced that a better method of election (and subsequent replacement/byelection)were in place. Whilst I can vote in Eire, I don't, so it is theoretical for me. I am the only member of my family who can vote for the Seanad and can vote on both University Panels. My brother, a graduate from another non-NUI University, is denied a vote. My father who was a County Councillor used vote for the Vocational Panels while my mother has never had a vote for it despite voting in every Dáil, local and referendum since she obtained the franchise. Universal suffrage is needed with a large reduction in the number of Senators together with giving them a defined agenda to act as the oversight body for such as European legislation for example. There's a good debate at national level going on about this. |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 13:52:42 GMT
Whilst I am sympathetic to the idea of unicameral parliaments, I would go along with IrishObserver in that it would need more powers at local level to make this feasible. As things stand, I would reluctantly oppose the abolition of the Seanad but only if I could be convinced that a better method of election (and subsequent replacement/byelection)were in place. Whilst I can vote in Eire, I don't, so it is theoretical for me. I am the only member of my family who can vote for the Seanad and can vote on both University Panels. My brother, a graduate from another non-NUI University, is denied a vote. My father who was a County Councillor used vote for the Vocational Panels while my mother has never had a vote for it despite voting in every Dáil, local and referendum since she obtained the franchise. Universal suffrage is needed with a large reduction in the number of Senators together with giving them a defined agenda to act as the oversight body for such as European legislation for example. There's a good debate at national level going on about this. You see, that I could vote for - a reduced member Seanad with universal suffrage, even if I would prefer stronger local government and no Seanad. The University seats in Britain finally disappeared in 1950; they had been an innovation brought in by the Scots after the accession of James VI (James I in England and Wales). |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Jun 28, 2013 14:17:21 GMT
Surely after the Union of Parliaments rather than the Union of Crowns if that were the cause, that being 1707 rather than 1603.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 15:01:58 GMT
Surely after the Union of Parliaments rather than the Union of Crowns if that were the cause, that being 1707 rather than 1603. Nope, I am pretty sure they were introduced fairly quickly. Dublin had a University seat from 1613 and the Oxford and Cambridge ones were prior to this. |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Jun 28, 2013 15:50:16 GMT
OK. I have now gone and wikied the Cambridge University seat. 1603.
And the footnoted links say Oxford the same. Dublin from the 1801 Union so I assume your 1613 makes sense. The Scots came in paired in 1868 and combined from 1918. 1919 seems also to have brought in Wales and Combined English along with Queens Belfast. The sum of that further reading gets to I think 11 from 1918 to 1922.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Jun 28, 2013 16:44:15 GMT
OK. I have now gone and wikied the Cambridge University seat. 1603. And the footnoted links say Oxford the same. Dublin from the 1801 Union so I assume your 1613 makes sense. The Scots came in paired in 1868 and combined from 1918. 1919 seems also to have brought in Wales and Combined English along with Queens Belfast. The sum of that further reading gets to I think 11 from 1918 to 1922. History was my 'major' and I had a pretty good idea that it was right, not least because I think it was one of the less than subtle paving stones towards eventual Union. |
|
|
|
Post by timrollpickering on Jun 28, 2013 17:14:35 GMT
OK. I have now gone and wikied the Cambridge University seat. 1603. And the footnoted links say Oxford the same. Dublin from the 1801 Union so I assume your 1613 makes sense. The Scots came in paired in 1868 and combined from 1918. 1919 seems also to have brought in Wales and Combined English along with Queens Belfast. The sum of that further reading gets to I think 11 from 1918 to 1922. More - you forgot London which made it 12 in 1922-1950. I think both Irish universities had seats by 1918. |
|
|
|
Post by timrollpickering on Jun 28, 2013 17:25:47 GMT
Do TD's have constituency staff who can deal with the casework? I imagined that they would probably spend quite a bit of time attending surgeries and signing off letters etc, but 70% of time being spent on casework is utterly ridiculous. I don't know if it's an exact time & motion study estimate but certainly Irish ministers often amaze international counterparts with the amount of time given over to constituency work. This probably includes personal visits for canvassing and attending the opening of crisp packets. |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Jun 28, 2013 19:10:53 GMT
OK. I have now gone and wikied the Cambridge University seat. 1603. And the footnoted links say Oxford the same. Dublin from the 1801 Union so I assume your 1613 makes sense. The Scots came in paired in 1868 and combined from 1918. 1919 seems also to have brought in Wales and Combined English along with Queens Belfast. The sum of that further reading gets to I think 11 from 1918 to 1922. More - you forgot London which made it 12 in 1922-1950. I think both Irish universities had seats by 1918. But of course Dublin lapsed in 1922. |
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 2, 2013 11:07:17 GMT
Polls on Thursday, approval looks likely (polls currently running at about 60:40 in favour). Fianna Fáil are the main block opposing it. Some of the incumbent Independent Senators have also joined the fray, with the wonderful David Norris having gone rather over the top:  |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Oct 2, 2013 11:24:25 GMT
I am against the UK having a single chamber Parliament. I do recognise that Ireland is different being much smaller. I have reservations though that the biggest ground for this change seems to be costs. I also wonder if it could affect the nature of the Irish presidency which could become more political (elect someone who will veto unpopular laws).
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 12:15:43 GMT
I am against the UK having a single chamber Parliament. I do recognise that Ireland is different being much smaller. I have reservations though that the biggest ground for this change seems to be costs. I also wonder if it could affect the nature of the Irish presidency which could become more political (elect someone who will veto unpopular laws). the HoL of course has no veto, is hugely expensive and has more nominations than the elected reps. Size is not important, make the Westminister committees much more powerful, able to ask independent experts on the committees and get rid of the HoL altogether. You do not need a referendum in this country to do so and I suspect if you asked people they would vote for abolition. |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Oct 2, 2013 12:24:51 GMT
The HoC is very partisan. If you make the committees very powerful theat partisanship will go there much more than currently. Second chamber should be democratic but not cause gridlock, therefore weaker and less current mandate than the first. If you told the British people how much the next election and the 2015-20 parliament would cost they would probably abolish those too. Lets not ask.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 13:24:05 GMT
exactly, I would love to put in our manifesto we would abolish it, win an election and just do it with the mandate ...
As for being partisan the HoL is just that after your latest round of top heavy LD and tory nominations of party donors.
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 13:34:43 GMT
that Irish Labour poster is a total disgrace and I would leave the party here if we ever produced something like that
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 13:46:10 GMT
exactly, I would love to put in our manifesto we would abolish it, win an election and just do it with the mandate ... As for being partisan the HoL is just that after your latest round of top heavy LD and tory nominations of party donors. Ian, Ian, Ian... Given that there are STILL more labour lords than tory ones which party do you think was being the most partisan in its appointments. |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Oct 2, 2013 13:46:55 GMT
I think I would laugh rather than be worried about it. But doubt it will swing votes
|
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on Oct 2, 2013 13:54:42 GMT
exactly, I would love to put in our manifesto we would abolish it, win an election and just do it with the mandate ... As for being partisan the HoL is just that after your latest round of top heavy LD and tory nominations of party donors. Ian, Ian, Ian... Given that there are STILL more labour lords than tory ones which party do you think was being the most partisan in its appointments. all of them which is why we should have gone all the way in the second parliament with the huge mandate we had. |
|
|
|
Post by erlend on Oct 2, 2013 14:05:24 GMT
I suspect cynically that Governments in the first time they have a working majority need to do such things. By 4 years in they are all settled in their ways.
|
|
|
|
Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 2, 2013 14:27:23 GMT
that Irish Labour poster is a total disgrace and I would leave the party here if we ever produced something like that Are you talking about the Irish Labour poster:  Or the reply to it, above, produced by opponents? |
|
