Party list candidates data

[swanarcadian]

I know it’s only Wikipedia, but there’s a rather wonderful article detailing all the votes cast for the open lists in the most recent Dutch general election. Did anyone here create it?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_candidates_in_the_2023_Dutch_general_election

Such data seems to be lacking in other countries with party lists such as Spain and Portugal. Admittedly they only use closed lists but there doesn’t seem to be any easy online source detailing all the candidates and the order in which they were placed, particularly unsuccessful ones.

One wonders what might have been different had open lists existed in the UK when we had MEPs. Edward McMillan Scott for example, would probably not have been top of the Tory Yorkshire list in 1999.

[greatkingrat]

Sept 16, 2024 15:31:12 GMT swanarcadian said:

I know it’s only Wikipedia, but there’s a rather wonderful article detailing all the votes cast for the open lists in the most recent Dutch general election. Did anyone here create it?

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_candidates_in_the_2023_Dutch_general_election

Such data seems to be lacking in other countries with party lists such as Spain and Portugal. Admittedly they only use closed lists but there doesn’t seem to be any easy online source detailing all the candidates and the order in which they were placed, particularly unsuccessful ones.

One wonders what might have been different had open lists existed in the UK when we had MEPs. Edward McMillan Scott for example, would probably not have been top of the Tory Yorkshire list in 1999.

It wouldn't have made any difference. The vast majority of Conservative voters wouldn't have had any opinion on Edward McMillan Scott (positive or negative). Those Dutch results show the vast majority just vote for no. 1 on their chosen party's list.

[stb12]

Very questionable how much of the electorate would be interested enough in candidate research for open lists to make a huge difference

A party’s biggest names would get a lot of the votes but then they tend to be high up on closed lists anyway, certainly always are in Scottish Parliament elections aside from when Labour had an internal ban on dual candidacies

[john07]

It's a question of how much alphabetical voting takes place?

This can make a big difference in STV and multi-member FPTP elections. I assume it will work the same way with open list systems.

Those with surnames early in the alphabet are perceived to have an advantage.

At Manchester University, the students' union used AV and STV for all elections. The actual rules stated that elections should alternate between alphabetical and reverse alphabetical order for candidates. The rule appeared to have been forgotten until the Internal Vice President unearthed the old rule when he was preparing to stand for election to the NUS conference delegation. His name was Dave Watson!

Usually, this will only apply to preferential voting systems. However it can impact on multi-member FPTP elections if the results are close. This applies to authorities in London and also to most Metropolitan Districts where an all-council election following new boundaries. I was elected for Chesylesmore Ward to Coventry City Council in 1980.

In that election, the three Conservative candidates' votes followed alphabetical order. The three Labour candidates, however, ended up in reverse alphabetical order!

[swanarcadian]

I may be mistaken here but even with open lists, the candidates will surely be put in order the party leadership prefers on the ballot paper, rather than alphabetically. It’s up to voters if they want to change it.
The thing with the Dutch system is that they just use one nationwide constituency, so this probably exaggerates the proportion of votes the party leaders would get than if there were multiple constituencies in play.
Even if the 2nd placed candidate and the rest all get less than 10 percent between them, there would probably be enough politically savvy people to make a difference between which candidates get elected and the ones who d’hondt (excuse the pun).
It’s noticeable how the candidates last on the open lists usually seem to get some sympathy votes.

[greatkingrat]

It is common for Dutch parties to put a celebrity of some sort in the final list position, who doesn't have any desire or expectation of being elected.

[finsobruce]

Sept 17, 2024 14:52:16 GMT greatkingrat said:

It is common for Dutch parties to put a celebrity of some sort in the final list position, who doesn't have any desire or expectation of being elected.

Not so much a Dutch auction more a Dutch selection.

[noorderling]

Sept 17, 2024 14:33:21 GMT swanarcadian said:

I may be mistaken here but even with open lists, the candidates will surely be put in order the party leadership prefers on the ballot paper, rather than alphabetically. It’s up to voters if they want to change it.
The thing with the Dutch system is that they just use one nationwide constituency, so this probably exaggerates the proportion of votes the party leaders would get than if there were multiple constituencies in play.
Even if the 2nd placed candidate and the rest all get less than 10 percent between them, there would probably be enough politically savvy people to make a difference between which candidates get elected and the ones who d’hondt (excuse the pun).
It’s noticeable how the candidates last on the open lists usually seem to get some sympathy votes.

Correct. Favored candidates are placed at the top of the list, mp’s that have fallen out of favor will be placed on an unelectable place. The electorate have the chance to correct this. Usually a very limited number of candidates get enough votes to be pushed up the list and get elected. It happened to Omzigt in 2012. 

[November_Rain]

Thank you for this I wouldn't mind that system here.