john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Jul 12, 2024 16:56:48 GMT
Not what I said, but taking a council house out of circulation isn't great. Owning a house doesn’t “take it out of circulation”. It still exists. It still forms part of the nation’s housing stock. It can still be sold and bought. So how come owner occupation has been in decline for many years and swathes of those council houses they were purchased under ‘right to buy’ legislation are now in the private rental market. At Coventry, when I was on the council, they stopped building council houses after Thatcher pushed the sale of council houses. This was because as fast as the council could build new houses they would be sold to sitting tenants at up to 60% discount. Consequently, all effort went into improving what was left of the council housing stock. Many of that houses that remained were not the most attractive parts of the stock. Just how long those purchased under right to buy remained in their ownership remains uncertain but I suspect that within a generation most were in the private rental market. Meantime those unable to meet the financial criteria to buy a house found that council housing was outside their reach and had no option but private rental. Now owner occupation has fallen back for all generations apart from the over-65s. Co-incidentally that is the one group that continues to vote Conservative. |
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observer
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Post by observer on Jul 12, 2024 17:05:06 GMT
Owning a house doesn’t “take it out of circulation”. It still exists. It still forms part of the nation’s housing stock. It can still be sold and bought. So how come owner occupation has been in decline for many years and swathes of those council houses they were purchased under ‘right to buy’ legislation are now in the private rental market. At Coventry, when I was on the council, they stopped building council houses after Thatcher pushed the sale of council houses. This was because as fast as the council could build new houses they would be sold to sitting tenants at up to 60% discount. Consequently, all effort went into improving what was left of the council housing stock. Many of that houses that remained were not the most attractive parts of the stock. Just how long those purchased under right to buy remained in their ownership remains uncertain but I suspect that within a generation most were in the private rental market. Meantime those unable to meet the financial criteria to buy a house found that council housing was outside their reach and had no option but private rental. Now owner occupation has fallen back for all generations apart from the over-65s. Co-incidentally that is the one group that continues to vote Conservative. Rising demand and stagnating living standards while unsustainably printing money to 'support' public spending are the reason that owner occupation has declined. Even so, sale of council houses doesn't 'remove them from circulation '. They are still lived in...it is only the owner that has changed. Anyone who has supported increasing demand for houses, generally via immigration, and the printing of money needs to think carefully. You don't get to say you support the plight of the young while supporting the policies that have caused their distress. Admittedly it's peculiar that the young themselves generally vote for such policies |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 12, 2024 18:11:11 GMT
Out of circulation means out of the housing stock. A house that was a council house bought through right to buy unless bought back by the council, financially not really sustainable, obviously isn't available to someone on the housing waiting list
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observer
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Post by observer on Jul 12, 2024 18:58:50 GMT
Three of my friends bought their council house from the council. A fourth bought an ex-council house from the original purchaser.
I can confirm that the houses still exist, that they still have the same number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc as before.
They haven't been removed from the housing stock
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 12, 2024 19:54:42 GMT
Three of my friends bought their council house from the council. A fourth bought an ex-council house from the original purchaser. I can confirm that the houses still exist, that they still have the same number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc as before. They haven't been removed from the housing stock housing stock refers to housing in public hands |
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johnloony
Conservative
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Post by johnloony on Jul 12, 2024 20:47:20 GMT
Three of my friends bought their council house from the council. A fourth bought an ex-council house from the original purchaser. I can confirm that the houses still exist, that they still have the same number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc as before. They haven't been removed from the housing stock housing stock refers to housing in public hands No it doesn’t. It means the total amount of stuff. If a house is sold or bought or rented to or from or by one person or thing or entity to another person or thing or entity, it still exists and it makes no difference to the total amount of housing that exists. It will continue to exist until it is demolished. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 12, 2024 21:02:58 GMT
housing stock refers to housing in public hands No it doesn’t. It means the total amount of stuff. If a house is sold or bought or rented to or from or by one person or thing or entity to another person or thing or entity, it still exists and it makes no difference to the total amount of housing that exists. It will continue to exist until it is demolished. it's naive to think that housing being sold through right to buy doesn't diminish the public housing stock reducing the number of properties available to people on the housing list. I am aware that these aren't issues that affect everyone as many people will never be on the housing waiting list but thank god we've got a hot a government serious about housing people. First day back in work today and already got cases coming out of our ears. One man is in an HMO due to being made homeless. He needs suitable accommodation appropriate to his palliative care needs. But he's still waiting. It's inhumane. Degrading. Tantamount to neglect. |
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carlton43
Reform Party
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 12, 2024 22:02:35 GMT
Three of my friends bought their council house from the council. A fourth bought an ex-council house from the original purchaser. I can confirm that the houses still exist, that they still have the same number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc as before. They haven't been removed from the housing stock But crucially they have been removed from the local authority social housing stock and are never available for letting to the very people for whom they were built, ever again. And the very best of them and the houses with potential for rapidly increasing value go first. The older, more decrepit and difficult to maintain stay as a charge on the public purse. This is not just an absurdist policy, but a deeply corrupt policy of using publicly funded assets to nakedly bribe votes by discounting the price against value as well. I cannot believe that the Blair and Brown years failed to see it stopped completely. It was the hammer blow to kill off local initiatives to provide social housing. I may be right wing but I have always supported a large social housing sector. |
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Post by islington on Jul 12, 2024 22:43:17 GMT
Three of my friends bought their council house from the council. A fourth bought an ex-council house from the original purchaser. I can confirm that the houses still exist, that they still have the same number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc as before. They haven't been removed from the housing stock But crucially they have been removed from the local authority social housing stock and are never available for letting to the very people for whom they were built, ever again. And the very best of them and the houses with potential for rapidly increasing value go first. The older, more decrepit and difficult to maintain stay as a charge on the public purse. This is not just an absurdist policy, but a deeply corrupt policy of using publicly funded assets to nakedly bribe votes by discounting the price against value as well. I cannot believe that the Blair and Brown years failed to see it stopped completely. It was the hammer blow to kill off local initiatives to provide social housing. I may be right wing but I have always supported a large social housing sector. Well, as has been pointed out, a lot of them end up in the private rented sector where they are likely to be let to the same sort of tenants - probably in some cases the exact same tenants - that the council would have let them to. Having said that, I agree completely about the need for a large social housing sector. But what's even more important is to have more housing at all price points: even, dare I say it, the prestige luxury home developments that people moan about, because they absorb well-heeled buyers and thus ease pressure of the next layer down. So my recommendations: - Build build build - Keep tilting the balance against private landlords so that more of them exit the market (but not taking the housing with them, so that it ends up in the hands of less well-off owner occupiers). |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 12, 2024 22:47:35 GMT
But crucially they have been removed from the local authority social housing stock and are never available for letting to the very people for whom they were built, ever again. And the very best of them and the houses with potential for rapidly increasing value go first. The older, more decrepit and difficult to maintain stay as a charge on the public purse. This is not just an absurdist policy, but a deeply corrupt policy of using publicly funded assets to nakedly bribe votes by discounting the price against value as well. I cannot believe that the Blair and Brown years failed to see it stopped completely. It was the hammer blow to kill off local initiatives to provide social housing. I may be right wing but I have always supported a large social housing sector. Well, as has been pointed out, a lot of them end up in the private rented sector where they are likely to be let to the same sort of tenants - probably in some cases the exact same tenants - that the council would have let them to. Having said that, I agree completely about the need for a large social housing sector. But what's even more important is to have more housing at all price points: even, dare I say it, the prestige luxury home developments that people moan about, because they absorb well-heeled buyers and thus ease pressure of the next layer down. So my recommendations: - Build build build - Keep tilting the balance against private landlords so that more of them exit the market (but not taking the housing with them, so that it ends up in the hands of less well-off owner occupiers). the problem with ex council property being rented to the very people who need council housing is that rent is likely to be more expensive. Putting aside whether you think that's right or not, this is a cash cow for many people renting out property to people who can't afford it. Almost inevitably the housing benefit bill picks up the tab and there isn't a cap. I could say, this is the rent and housing benefit pay it. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 12, 2024 22:52:56 GMT
Three of my friends bought their council house from the council. A fourth bought an ex-council house from the original purchaser. I can confirm that the houses still exist, that they still have the same number of bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchens etc as before. They haven't been removed from the housing stock housing stock refers to housing in public hands So when we see statements like "Britain has the oldest housing stock in Europe", "Britain has the worst built housing stock in Europe", "Britain has the worst energy efficient housing stock in Europe", that's council houses. Ok, thanks for the clarification. Slightly miffed that all that work we (in both administrations) did in 2000-2010 when I was on Housing resulted in such a crap outcome. I had thought all those nice new windows, cavity insulation, central heating, roof insulation, new kitchens and bathrooms were pretty decent. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 12, 2024 23:00:02 GMT
housing stock refers to housing in public hands So when we see statements like "Britain has the oldest housing stock in Europe", "Britain has the worst built housing stock in Europe", "Britain has the worst energy efficient housing stock in Europe", that's council houses. Ok, thanks for the clarification. Slightly miffed that all that work we (in both administrations) did in 2000-2010 when I was on Housing resulted in such a crap outcome. I had thought all those nice new windows, cavity insulation, central heating, roof insulation, new kitchens and bathrooms were pretty decent. I can believe we have some of the oldest in Europe. I live in an ex council house, not sure if it was sold during your tenure though. I think not though as we still had our original electric box which was a nightmare. I have you to thank though for the property we were looking at which was sold in 2008, it's looking mighty fine now you'll be pleased to hear. Not sellable unfortunately due to lack of a proper third bedroom. You're also not responsible for the repossession and then sale of the High Greave estate which unfortunately fell into disrepair. Also not for the repossession of several other properties that aren't easily maintained as our comrades in the town hall are discovering. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 12, 2024 23:19:56 GMT
So my recommendations: - Build build build - Keep tilting the balance against private landlords so that more of them exit the market (but not taking the housing with them, so that it ends up in the hands of less well-off owner occupiers). I've been looking at the mortgage market, and all of them run screaming in terror from the sort of mixed-use property that I have, so it will never end up being owner-occupied. |
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 12, 2024 23:26:38 GMT
You're also not responsible for the repossession and then sale of the High Greave estate which unfortunately fell into disrepair. Also not for the repossession of several other properties that aren't easily maintained as our comrades in the town hall are discovering. High Greave - and Ecclesfield - were built by West Riding. I was re-wiring my brother's house in Ecclesfield last year, and yes - the electrics were a *nightmare*! Not helped by the former occupant's slapdash approach to sticking extra electrics in. At one point I found a cable join made by twisting wires together and then plastering over them. In the kitchen where steam from cooking would have made the walls nicely conductive.  |
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Post by mattbewilson on Jul 12, 2024 23:44:17 GMT
You're also not responsible for the repossession and then sale of the High Greave estate which unfortunately fell into disrepair. Also not for the repossession of several other properties that aren't easily maintained as our comrades in the town hall are discovering. High Greave - and Ecclesfield - were built by West Riding. I was re-wiring my brother's house in Ecclesfield last year, and yes - the electrics were a *nightmare*! Not helped by the former occupant's slapdash approach to sticking extra electrics in. At one point I found a cable join made by twisting wires together and then plastering over them. In the kitchen where steam from cooking would have made the walls nicely conductive. same! We were told given there was no actual earth we should avoid anything we could get electrocuted by |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 13, 2024 2:23:52 GMT
I would never buy an ex-council house if I can avoid it - I don't believe in Right to Buy. We bought a 60s built private development ground floor flat in Highgate, but there's not much social housing here. When I was young and a hard right Tory, I used to ask "who would want to own a council house?" Small windows, chavvy neighbours, neighbours with dogs shitting everywhere, foul-mouthed youngsters marauding the neighbourhood despite the 'Neighbourhood Watch' signs etc. Little did I know this racket had been going on for decades and decades. 'Out of circulation' means you can't get it if you apply for council housing, like my dad did in 2012.
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