Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 5, 2024 17:22:50 GMT
I defer to your academic answers to such questions which tend to be on the money. I get the sense that large scale immigration from Muslim nations has been a late 20th century / 21st century thing, but that might be tabloid scaremongering and scapegoating / stereotyping etc. I think you're misunderstanding. Sibb is pointing out that the Muslim community in the UK is from former British colonies. The fact that most of the migration happened during the mid 20th century doesn't conflict with that at all. I think you're missing my point (not very well made, admittedly) which is about the extent of Commonwealth Muslim immigration, rather than the fact of it. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Jul 6, 2024 0:16:28 GMT
I think you're misunderstanding. Sibb is pointing out that the Muslim community in the UK is from former British colonies. The fact that most of the migration happened during the mid 20th century doesn't conflict with that at all. I think you're missing my point (not very well made, admittedly) which is about the extent of Commonwealth Muslim immigration, rather than the fact of it. Well, we needed a lot of cheap workers to fill the labour shortage after the Second World War, and there was a group of people with a strong aspirational desire to move to a richer country - the UK was a good option for them, because of cultural and linguistic links related to colonisation. The volume of migration was entirely a factor of what the UK economy demanded at the time. Our failure was really to ostracise some sectors of the community in the decades after the beginning of migration, which has lead to the isolated and concentrated pockets of less integrated Commonwealth migrants. This is not a given for all the future Commonwealth migrants though - I currently live with Indians myself who I have made a specific effort with to help them fulfill their wish of integrating into the community and culture, because they do have a desire to assimilate and the sooner they do, the better chance they have of being accepted. |
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bd
Labour
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Post by bd on Jul 6, 2024 9:25:51 GMT
I suspect that Ayoub Khan won’t resign his council seat here, following the lead of Gary Sambrook, Tahir Ali and Suzanne Webb in 2019. I do think that there should be a requirement that MPs cannot hold additional elected positions such as a council seat and that accepting office as an MP effectively prompts the cessation of their office as a local councillor. He obviously no longer has a party that might want to avoid a tricky by-election but my guess is he will still keep the council position.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 16,025
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 6, 2024 11:37:15 GMT
Anyway, it's funny how the boundary changes had the effect of swapping which incumbent in Birmingham lost from Byrne (very badly) to Mahmood (just).
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Post by woollyliberal on Jul 6, 2024 12:25:14 GMT
I suspect that Ayoub Khan won’t resign his council seat here, following the lead of Gary Sambrook, Tahir Ali and Suzanne Webb in 2019. I do think that there should be a requirement that MPs cannot hold additional elected positions such as a council seat and that accepting office as an MP effectively prompts the cessation of their office as a local councillor. He obviously no longer has a party that might want to avoid a tricky by-election but my guess is he will still keep the council position. His council seat is in his constituency. He will get their casework either way. Only now he will have an office and staff to help. His is a two member ward, so my thoughts are with the other councillor who will no doubt have to pick up the extra work. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 6, 2024 16:29:08 GMT
Was the campaign messaging here 'Yes we Khan!'? IIRC, the original Ayub Khan invented the modern Pakistan in 1934. Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, BalochISTAN
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Post by iainbhx on Jul 6, 2024 18:07:22 GMT
Anyway, it's funny how the boundary changes had the effect of swapping which incumbent in Birmingham lost from Byrne (very badly) to Mahmood (just). Yeah, with old Hodge Hill, Byrne would have been out on his ear by thousands. |
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Jul 6, 2024 19:39:42 GMT
After 4-5 years of Labour in government and an increasing Muslim population does anyone want to bet against 4 or 5 Muslim "independent" MPs in Birmingham next time. Ladywood, Hodge Hill, Hall Green, Yardley all look vulnerable.
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Post by greenchristian on Jul 6, 2024 23:28:48 GMT
After 4-5 years of Labour in government and an increasing Muslim population does anyone want to bet against 4 or 5 Muslim "independent" MPs in Birmingham next time. Ladywood, Hodge Hill, Hall Green, Yardley all look vulnerable. It's not entirely clear that the Muslim population will be increasing by a substantial amount. There are a substantial number of Muslim leaders in English-speaking countries who have been saying that something like a quarter of young Muslims are leaving the faith over the last couple of years. Ex-Muslims (whether open or secret) will be extremely unlikely to vote for "Muslim independents" unless they are in a household where somebody else controls their postal vote. So whilst the outcome you describe is definitely possible, it is far from certain. Especially if these independents stand on an explicitly Islamic platform.
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
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Post by The Bishop on Jul 8, 2024 18:15:32 GMT
Labour are now in government, and will both want to repair relationships with the Muslim community and have opportunities to do so. That does not mean they will inevitably be completely successful, but simply extrapolating into the future what we saw last week is a mug's game.
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
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Post by john07 on Jul 8, 2024 18:21:02 GMT
Was the campaign messaging here 'Yes we Khan!'? IIRC, the original Ayub Khan invented the modern Pakistan in 1934. Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, BalochISTAN Here’s me thinking it was Muhammad Ali Jinnah? |
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 8, 2024 18:57:04 GMT
Was the campaign messaging here 'Yes we Khan!'? IIRC, the original Ayub Khan invented the modern Pakistan in 1934. Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, BalochISTAN Here’s me thinking it was Muhammad Ali Jinnah? Don't bother. He is isn't worth the puff. He pretends to much but knows very little at all. |
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Post by Johncrane on Jul 8, 2024 19:29:39 GMT
After 4-5 years of Labour in government and an increasing Muslim population does anyone want to bet against 4 or 5 Muslim "independent" MPs in Birmingham next time. Ladywood, Hodge Hill, Hall Green, Yardley all look vulnerable. It's not entirely clear that the Muslim population will be increasing by a substantial amount. There are a substantial number of Muslim leaders in English-speaking countries who have been saying that something like a quarter of young Muslims are leaving the faith over the last couple of years. Ex-Muslims (whether open or secret) will be extremely unlikely to vote for "Muslim independents" unless they are in a household where somebody else controls their postal vote. So whilst the outcome you describe is definitely possible, it is far from certain. Especially if these independents stand on an explicitly Islamic platform.
I believe that number of "quarter of young Muslims leaving" is from pew research which talks about religion in America and it notes that while a quarter leaves it also gains a similar amount so in theory it has no overall effect unlike Christianity which in America, 25% are leaving and only 6% are converts. Also an interesting point it brings up is that a disproportionate amount of ex Muslims are from an Iranian background and unlike in the states, the number of Muslims that have Iranian ancestry are very small in the UK. www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2018/01/26/the-share-of-americans-who-leave-islam-is-offset-by-those-who-become-muslim/ |
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Post by johnloony on Jul 8, 2024 22:14:29 GMT
Was the campaign messaging here 'Yes we Khan!'? IIRC, the original Ayub Khan invented the modern Pakistan in 1934. Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, BalochISTAN Here’s me thinking it was Muhammad Ali Jinnah? Inventing a country is not the same as inventing the name of a country |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2024 1:27:56 GMT
Was the campaign messaging here 'Yes we Khan!'? IIRC, the original Ayub Khan invented the modern Pakistan in 1934. Punjab, Afghania, Kashmir, BalochISTAN Here’s me thinking it was Muhammad Ali Jinnah? My knowledge of Pakistani history fails me - 'Pakistan' is the portmanteau I suggested, but it was propounded by Choudhry Rehmat Ali in 1933, not Jinnah or Khan. |
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john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,774
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Post by john07 on Jul 9, 2024 2:15:50 GMT
Here’s me thinking it was Muhammad Ali Jinnah? My knowledge of Pakistani history fails me - 'Pakistan' is the portmanteau I suggested, but it was propounded by Choudhry Rehmat Ali in 1933, not Jinnah or Khan. I had already established that Khan would probably have still been at Sandhurst, in 1933, before fighting for the Allies in the Second World War. Jinnah was fundamental in the creation of Pakistan. But it was only realised because the UK and the USA became concerned about a united India providing a warm water path to the Indian Ocean for the USSR. They encouraged Jinnah to go for an independent Pakistan. Cold War politics were to blame. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jul 9, 2024 2:18:33 GMT
My knowledge of Pakistani history fails me - 'Pakistan' is the portmanteau I suggested, but it was propounded by Choudhry Rehmat Ali in 1933, not Jinnah or Khan. I had already established that Khan would probably have still been at Sandhurst, in 1933, before fighting for the Allies in the Second World War. Jinnah was fundamental in the creation of Pakistan. But it was only realised because the UK and the USA became concerned about a united India providing a warm water path to the Indian Ocean for the USSR. They encouraged Jinnah to go for an independent Pakistan. Cold War politics were to blame. To be clear, I was only focusing on the name. FWIW, I wonder if this MP is purposefully named after Ayub Khan (is it a regional variant on the forename 'Ayub'?). The British, including Wavell, Cripps and Mountbatten have a lot to answer for. A secular United States of India would've been better (including Bangladesh too). Pakistan should be 'India' because of the Indus River Valley and India should be 'Bharat'. It might happen one day and the name change for Pakistan could help their tourism. |
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