Birmingham Perry Barr

[YL]

Jul 5, 2024 7:47:07 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Jul 5, 2024 7:08:59 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

So that's 5 for the far-left/Islamist coalition, one in each of London, East Midlands, West MIdlands, North West and Yorkshire. Could have been worse in Birmingham

Ayoub Khan was a Lib Dem cllr before defecting, so not far-left, whatever else he may be, and I don't believe he's an Islamist either. His beef with the party was over Gaza, sure, but I'd caution over reading more into it than that.

However, assuming he vacates his council seat, we'll have a tough by-election to fight, which will be a theoretical defence.

Are any of the "Gaza independents" actually Islamists? They're not all the same, and maybe some of them are, but I feel that word is getting thrown around a little too easily.

[eastmidlandsright]

Jul 5, 2024 16:09:00 GMT YL said:

Jul 5, 2024 7:47:07 GMT Chris from Brum said:

Ayoub Khan was a Lib Dem cllr before defecting, so not far-left, whatever else he may be, and I don't believe he's an Islamist either. His beef with the party was over Gaza, sure, but I'd caution over reading more into it than that.

However, assuming he vacates his council seat, we'll have a tough by-election to fight, which will be a theoretical defence.

Are any of the "Gaza independents" actually Islamists? They're not all the same, and maybe some of them are, but I feel that word is getting thrown around a little too easily.

I suspect that many are simply opportunists but their actual beliefs don't matter, their victories are the result of factors that should concern us.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2024 16:12:57 GMT eastmidlandsright said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:09:00 GMT YL said:

Are any of the "Gaza independents" actually Islamists? They're not all the same, and maybe some of them are, but I feel that word is getting thrown around a little too easily.

I suspect that many are simply opportunists but their actual beliefs don't matter, their victories are the result of factors that should concern us.

Exactly. Most of the independents are not like Jason Zadrozny but you have to acknowledge their political entrepreneurship in seeing a chance at a seat and taking it.

[Pete Whitehead]

These people have the endorsement of MEND, 5 Pillars etc.

Whether they may, in some cases, have previously used a Lib Dem label (or anything else) as a flag of convenience is neither here nor there

[Deleted]

Labour should take them seriously before we potentially get into hung parliament territory at the next election or the one after.

[Pete Whitehead]

Labour taking them seriously will no doubt manifest itself in the introduction of de facto blasphemy laws..

[jdc]

Jul 5, 2024 16:19:20 GMT @weld said:

Labour should take them seriously before we potentially get into hung parliament territory at the next election or the one after.

For every seat Labour can gain by caving to these kinds of people it would lose 10 others back to the Tories or Reform in the Red Wall.

[rcronald]

Jul 5, 2024 16:19:20 GMT @weld said:

Labour should take them seriously before we potentially get into hung parliament territory at the next election or the one after.

There aren’t enough Muslim plurality constituencies for them to risk a hung parliament. It is also unlikely that there’s going to be a war as close to the heart of Muslims (unless Pakistan decides to do something stupid) as there was in this election.

[eastmidlandsright]

Jul 5, 2024 16:21:28 GMT jdc said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:19:20 GMT @weld said:

Labour should take them seriously before we potentially get into hung parliament territory at the next election or the one after.

For every seat Labour can gain by caving to these kinds of people it would lose 10 others back to the Tories or Reform in the Red Wall.

Yes, but Labour could also find themselves under threat from these scum in a growing number of constituencies. There is no easy solution for them.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2024 16:21:13 GMT Pete Whitehead said:

Labour taking them seriously will no doubt manifest itself in the introduction of de facto blasphemy laws..

Oh for Pete's sake

[eastmidlandsright]

Jul 5, 2024 16:22:31 GMT rcronald said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:19:20 GMT @weld said:

Labour should take them seriously before we potentially get into hung parliament territory at the next election or the one after.

There aren’t enough Muslim plurality constituencies for them to risk a hung parliament. It is also unlikely that there’s going to be a war as close to the heart of Muslims (unless Pakistan decides to do something stupid) as there was in this election.

I am not sure if things quietening down in Gaza will change that much. Putting the genie back in the bottle could prove very difficult. We could be seeing the beginning of a genuine Muslim Party in Britain.

[rcronald]

Jul 5, 2024 16:26:10 GMT eastmidlandsright said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:22:31 GMT rcronald said:

There aren’t enough Muslim plurality constituencies for them to risk a hung parliament. It is also unlikely that there’s going to be a war as close to the heart of Muslims (unless Pakistan decides to do something stupid) as there was in this election.

I am not sure if things quietening down in Gaza will change that much. Putting the genie back in the bottle could prove very difficult. We could be seeing the beginning of a genuine Muslim Party in Britain.

Surely the Imams are smart enough to understand that a Muslim/Islamist party is a political suicide and perhaps even a step toward 0 Muslim immigration in the long term?

[Johncrane]

Jul 5, 2024 16:26:10 GMT eastmidlandsright said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:22:31 GMT rcronald said:

There aren’t enough Muslim plurality constituencies for them to risk a hung parliament. It is also unlikely that there’s going to be a war as close to the heart of Muslims (unless Pakistan decides to do something stupid) as there was in this election.

I am not sure if things quietening down in Gaza will change that much. Putting the genie back in the bottle could prove very difficult. We could be seeing the beginning of a genuine Muslim Party in Britain.

I disagree tbh, i think everyone knows that some kind of muslim party would be called a fifth column or an islamist evil that must be stopped and thus that would be avoided. Instead I think it's likely local community groups would spring up and we are seeing this in some capacity in east london like Newham independents and aspire ( although aspire have shown a distinct lack of interest in national politics) and i think these local groups could challenge labour hegemony in these places    

[rcronald]

Jul 5, 2024 16:37:57 GMT Johncrane said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:26:10 GMT eastmidlandsright said:

I am not sure if things quietening down in Gaza will change that much. Putting the genie back in the bottle could prove very difficult. We could be seeing the beginning of a genuine Muslim Party in Britain.

I disagree tbh, i think everyone knows that some kind of muslim party would be called a fifth column or an islamist evil that must be stopped and thus that would be avoided. Instead I think it's likely local community groups would spring up and we are seeing this in some capacity in east london like Newham independents and aspire ( although aspire have shown a distinct lack of interest in national politics) and i think these local groups could challenge labour hegemony in these places    

What you are describing is why I always expected the Gaza Indi to win in Batley & Dewsbury but not in the other constituencies (outside of Birmingham where I expected a couple of close contests, didn’t expect one where they actually won) where they won.

[Deleted]

Why are there many of these voters in this country to start with? Not a criticism, just a question. We never had free movement with the third world like with Europe.

[rcronald]

Jul 5, 2024 16:44:53 GMT @weld said:

Why are there many of these voters in this country to start with? Not a criticism, just a question. We never had free movement with the third world like with Europe.

New Danger (Labour) and the last 14 years of conservatives in name only.

[Sibboleth]

So, in 1600 the East India Company was formed in order to facilitate trade between England and what were then known as the East Indies...

[eastmidlandsright]

Jul 5, 2024 16:37:57 GMT Johncrane said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:26:10 GMT eastmidlandsright said:

I am not sure if things quietening down in Gaza will change that much. Putting the genie back in the bottle could prove very difficult. We could be seeing the beginning of a genuine Muslim Party in Britain.

I disagree tbh, i think everyone knows that some kind of muslim party would be called a fifth column or an islamist evil that must be stopped and thus that would be avoided. Instead I think it's likely local community groups would spring up and we are seeing this in some capacity in east london like Newham independents and aspire ( although aspire have shown a distinct lack of interest in national politics) and i think these local groups could challenge labour hegemony in these places    

I wasn't clear on this but I wasn't necessarily thinking of a formal Muslim Party but a loose alliance of Independent and local parties. There has been a fairly wide rejection of Labour as the party of that represents Muslim interests and I think that will only spread. I also don't think that many care that they would be labelled fifth columnists or Islamists, many would see it as a mark of pride.

[Deleted]

Jul 5, 2024 16:47:30 GMT Sibboleth said:

So, in 1600 the East India Company was formed in order to facilitate trade between England and what were then known as the East Indies...

I defer to your academic answers to such questions which tend to be on the money. I get the sense that large scale immigration from Muslim nations has been a late 20th century / 21st century thing, but that might be tabloid scaremongering and scapegoating / stereotyping etc. 

[greenchristian]

Jul 5, 2024 16:54:30 GMT @weld said:

Jul 5, 2024 16:47:30 GMT Sibboleth said:

So, in 1600 the East India Company was formed in order to facilitate trade between England and what were then known as the East Indies...

I defer to your academic answers to such questions which tend to be on the money. I get the sense that large scale immigration from Muslim nations has been a late 20th century / 21st century thing, but that might be tabloid scaremongering and scapegoating / stereotyping etc. 

I think you're misunderstanding. Sibb is pointing out that the Muslim community in the UK is from former British colonies. The fact that most of the migration happened during the mid 20th century doesn't conflict with that at all.