YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 21, 2024 9:18:41 GMT
Does anyone know the origin of some of these? Park There are of course Parks here, but I can't see any specific reason for the use of the name. Sometimes it refers to an old deer park or similar, but if there was one in this area I'm not seeing it on the late 19th century maps I've looked at. Sudell The Sudell Brook forms much of the boundary with West Lancashire, and there's a Sudell Bridge over it and a Sudell Lane crossing the bridge, but they're mostly in Park ward. There is a Sudell Avenue, but that hardly justifies the name. Molyneux This was the family name of the Earls of Sefton, who were associated with Aintree racecourse, which is in the ward. Church Which one and why? Victoria Is this just for Victoria Park? Manor I feel I must be missing something here. Ravenmeols Maps show Raven Meols (two words) in the SW corner of Formby, and the adjacent dunes are Raven Meols Hills, but unfortunately these are in Harington ward. There is a Raven Meols Lane in the ward, but that seems a poor explanation. Harington This seems to derive from the name of a barracks which was named after this person. Linacre The old Bootle parish was Bootle cum Linacre, and old maps do show the name Linacre here. Derby For Derby Park, or a more general Earl of Derby reference? |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 21, 2024 11:02:50 GMT
Does anyone know the origin of some of these? Sudell The Sudell Brook forms much of the boundary with West Lancashire, and there's a Sudell Bridge over it and a Sudell Lane crossing the bridge, but they're mostly in Park ward. There is a Sudell Avenue, but that hardly justifies the name. I don't know why this name would particularly feature in Maghull but William Sudell was the founding chairman of Preston North End (later disgraced) and the Sudell Cross in Blackburn is named after a local big noise in the the cloth trade in the early nineteenth century, who then went bankrupt and fled to Bath. So it appears to be a Lancashire surname of some standing and age. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 21, 2024 11:14:40 GMT
There used to be a Suddell ward in Darwen as well
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Jan 21, 2024 12:39:00 GMT
Is it a case of, "we named the borough through compromise so we've done the same with the wards"?
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Post by carolus on Jan 21, 2024 12:40:35 GMT
Looking at the historic results on electioncentre, it looks like all the names above came into existence at the 1979 elections (the continuity of names must be pretty unusual?). There are a few predecessors that were created in 1973:
No 2 - Bootle: Linacre & Mersey
No 16 - Formby: Duke Street & Raven Meols
No 19 - Litherland: Church-Hornby-Osborne-Walker
There was also No 11 - Southport: Marine & Park, but this must be a different Park.
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 21, 2024 13:12:17 GMT
Looking at the historic results on electioncentre, it looks like all the names above came into existence at the 1979 elections (the continuity of names must be pretty unusual?). There are a few predecessors that were created in 1973: No 2 - Bootle: Linacre & Mersey No 16 - Formby: Duke Street & Raven Meols No 19 - Litherland: Church-Hornby-Osborne-Walker There was also No 11 - Southport: Marine & Park, but this must be a different Park. I think the Church in No 19 is also completely different from the current Church. It looks to me as if those 1973 names were just formed by combining the names of the relevant wards of the various predecessor councils, and if we look at this 1953 map we can see Church, Hornby, Osborne and Walker wards in Litherland UD, so I imagine that's where No 19 was. And on this map we can see that the Raven Meols ward of Formby UD did include the Raven Meols area and the Raven Meols Hills dunes. That also shows the ward called Duke Street, which it was presumably merged with in 1973. |
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edgbaston
Labour
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Post by edgbaston on Jan 21, 2024 13:38:11 GMT
These are the sort of proper old fashioned names we should be getting back to. The only thing missing is an array of saints wards derived from churches that barely anyone in the ward associates with anymore
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edgbaston
Labour
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Post by edgbaston on Jan 21, 2024 13:40:49 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’
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Post by bjornhattan on Jan 21, 2024 13:55:17 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’ Bring back "Extra" (as in the sadly departed Romsey Extra)! |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jan 21, 2024 15:19:23 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’ Hem-hem. |
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Post by owainsutton on Jan 21, 2024 16:08:48 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’ Hem-hem. I'm sure we could get some "magna" and "parva"s in there, too? |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jan 21, 2024 16:26:14 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’ We need to bring back the Ruyton-XI-Towns ward |
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edgbaston
Labour
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Post by edgbaston on Jan 21, 2024 16:34:50 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’ We need to bring back the Ruyton-XI-Towns ward “Arthur Conan Doyle, while a medical student, worked as an unpaid assistant in the village for a Dr Eliot for four months in 1878, living at Cliffe House.[12] He later recalled Ruyton in his Memories and Recollections (1923) as "not big enough to make one town, far less eleven" “ |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 21, 2024 17:13:11 GMT
We should also do away with ‘east’ ‘west’ ect and get back to ‘within’ and ‘without’, as well as ‘X town’ and ‘X rural’ |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jan 21, 2024 17:43:58 GMT
We need to bring back the Ruyton-XI-Towns ward “Arthur Conan Doyle, while a medical student, worked as an unpaid assistant in the village for a Dr Eliot for four months in 1878, living at Cliffe House.[12] He later recalled Ruyton in his Memories and Recollections (1923) as "not big enough to make one town, far less eleven" “ The place where I once saw a horse trying to get on a bus. (Actually it was a woman on a horse talking to the bus driver, but it looked like a horse trying to get on a bus.) |
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Post by froome on Jan 22, 2024 8:41:26 GMT
Does anyone know the origin of some of these? Park There are of course Parks here, but I can't see any specific reason for the use of the name. Sometimes it refers to an old deer park or similar, but if there was one in this area I'm not seeing it on the late 19th century maps I've looked at. Sudell The Sudell Brook forms much of the boundary with West Lancashire, and there's a Sudell Bridge over it and a Sudell Lane crossing the bridge, but they're mostly in Park ward. There is a Sudell Avenue, but that hardly justifies the name. Molyneux This was the family name of the Earls of Sefton, who were associated with Aintree racecourse, which is in the ward. Church Which one and why? Victoria Is this just for Victoria Park? Manor I feel I must be missing something here. Ravenmeols Maps show Raven Meols (two words) in the SW corner of Formby, and the adjacent dunes are Raven Meols Hills, but unfortunately these are in Harington ward. There is a Raven Meols Lane in the ward, but that seems a poor explanation. Harington This seems to derive from the name of a barracks which was named after this person. Linacre The old Bootle parish was Bootle cum Linacre, and old maps do show the name Linacre here. Derby For Derby Park, or a more general Earl of Derby reference?There are probably quite a few wards around the country which still take their name from the landed gentry who originally owned the land, either as in Molyneux here, or via the name being passed onto an area or feature such as in Derby here. |
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YL
Non-Aligned
Either Labour leaning or Lib Dem leaning but not sure which
Posts: 4,915
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Post by YL on Jan 22, 2024 18:18:25 GMT
Looking at the historic results on electioncentre, it looks like all the names above came into existence at the 1979 elections (the continuity of names must be pretty unusual?). On the continuity point, Cambridge's ward names are unchanged since 1976 and 11 out of 12 of the names on the 1935 ward map are still in use. |
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Post by carolus on Jan 22, 2024 18:27:36 GMT
Looking at the historic results on electioncentre, it looks like all the names above came into existence at the 1979 elections (the continuity of names must be pretty unusual?). On the continuity point, Cambridge's ward names are unchanged since 1976 and 11 out of 12 of the names on the 1935 ward map are still in use. there's a Cambridge ward in Sefton! |
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Post by owainsutton on Jan 22, 2024 18:29:10 GMT
Does anyone know the origin of some of these? Park There are of course Parks here, but I can't see any specific reason for the use of the name. Sometimes it refers to an old deer park or similar, but if there was one in this area I'm not seeing it on the late 19th century maps I've looked at. Sudell The Sudell Brook forms much of the boundary with West Lancashire, and there's a Sudell Bridge over it and a Sudell Lane crossing the bridge, but they're mostly in Park ward. There is a Sudell Avenue, but that hardly justifies the name. Molyneux This was the family name of the Earls of Sefton, who were associated with Aintree racecourse, which is in the ward. Church Which one and why? Victoria Is this just for Victoria Park? Manor I feel I must be missing something here. Ravenmeols Maps show Raven Meols (two words) in the SW corner of Formby, and the adjacent dunes are Raven Meols Hills, but unfortunately these are in Harington ward. There is a Raven Meols Lane in the ward, but that seems a poor explanation. Harington This seems to derive from the name of a barracks which was named after this person. Linacre The old Bootle parish was Bootle cum Linacre, and old maps do show the name Linacre here. Derby For Derby Park, or a more general Earl of Derby reference?There are probably quite a few wards around the country which still take their name from the landed gentry who originally owned the land, either as in Molyneux here, or via the name being passed onto an area or feature such as in Derby here. I've never been able to pin down the exact origin of the "Clifford" ward that was only last May succeeded by "Old Trafford" here. It certainly dates back to Urban Borough days, that's all I know. |
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Post by finsobruce on Jan 22, 2024 18:36:29 GMT
On the continuity point, Cambridge's ward names are unchanged since 1976 and 11 out of 12 of the names on the 1935 ward map are still in use. there's a Cambridge ward in Sefton! Mornington Crescent! |
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