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Post by rcronald on Oct 13, 2023 5:59:39 GMT
The hatred of Jenkins and the Alliance was one of the only things my father and my grandparents agreed on politically when he was a teen/young adult in the 80s. Fair enough. My maternal granddad has voted Labour in every election since 1955 (he lives in Blair's old seat), but my mother votes Conservative. The only thing my Father and my grandparents strongly agreed on in the 80s and 90s was euroscepticism, opposition to the firearms amendment, Israel and the Alliance/LibDems… |
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Post by batman on Oct 13, 2023 7:55:21 GMT
To what extent did activists shift from Chipping Barnet to Enfield Southgate in 1997? I suspect many will be as pleased to see Theresa Villiers and IDS go down in 2024 as they were when Portillo lost in '97. Even my dad, a BBC journalist at the time, cheered went Portillo went down, apparently. there wouldn't have been that many Labour activists in either constituency. The Labour Party's twinning programme was carried out pretty ruthlessly & if we were not working in our own constituencies we were assigned one that we were expected to go to, and in many seats including my own, which clearly was not and is not winnable for Labour, we were strongly encouraged to work elsewhere if we could. I myself was the Twinning Co-ordinator (with Mitcham & Morden in that election) for Richmond Park CLP, and did very little work other than I think one leaflet in my own constituency - I did much more in 2001 as I was the Labour Agent & the candidate was (still is) my cousin. The gain in Enfield Southgate would have been achieved with a pretty low-key actual Labour campaign on the ground. Subsequently, of course, things have been completely different in that constituency. |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 13, 2023 10:17:03 GMT
I think that Labour people *did* go to Portillo's seat in the last week or so before the 1997 GE, whereas Chipping Barnet was almost entirely neglected apart from its local members. It was one of maybe a dozen places that might well have gone Labour then had we actually realised we were in with a chance, but that can be said of most GEs.
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Post by Peter Wilkinson on Oct 13, 2023 16:29:08 GMT
To what extent did activists shift from Chipping Barnet to Enfield Southgate in 1997? I suspect many will be as pleased to see Theresa Villiers and IDS go down in 2024 as they were when Portillo lost in '97. Even my dad, a BBC journalist at the time, cheered went Portillo went down, apparently. Not at all, so far as I am aware - if there was any constituency in outer north London that we in Chipping Barnet thought was less likely than Chipping Barnet, it was Enfield Southgate.  In fact, instructions from the Labour Party regionally and nationally were to go across to Edmonton, which had been Labour from 1935 to 1983 but Tory since then, to help the campaign there. It had been highly marginal in 1992 and was not only obviously going to go Labour easily anyway, but if we could only get it back with a targetted campaign, Major was still going to be prime minister. Edmonton went Labour by over 13,000, and the Labour majority there has never sunk below 8,000 since. I remember beling told later that the Edmonton Labour campaign had been so overwhelmed by activists sent in from elsewhere that, from early in the campaign, they had been sending them into Enfield North and, by the final week, were in desperation sending them into Enfield Southgate. I think we did shift some help into Finchley and Golders Green - though seeing that they had three or four times as many active Labour members as Chipping Barnet, that will have made only a minor contribution to the victory there. For the day itself, I think we advised any members who wanted to go across to Edmonton that they could do so but would probably be more likely to be of use in Enfield North or Finchley and Golders Green, but also put on a limited operation in Chipping Barnet, aimed at the two wards where we had councillors, who were going to be up for re-election in 1998. And I will be absolutely thrilled to see Theresa Villiers go down in 2024 (assuming she does). |
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Post by rcronald on Oct 13, 2023 16:40:05 GMT
To what extent did activists shift from Chipping Barnet to Enfield Southgate in 1997? I suspect many will be as pleased to see Theresa Villiers and IDS go down in 2024 as they were when Portillo lost in '97. Even my dad, a BBC journalist at the time, cheered went Portillo went down, apparently. Not at all, so far as I am aware - if there was any constituency in outer north London that we in Chipping Barnet thought was less likely than Chipping Barnet, it was Enfield Southgate. In fact, instructions from the Labour Party regionally and nationally were to go across to Edmonton, which had been Labour from 1935 to 1983 but Tory since then, to help the campaign there. It had been highly marginal in 1992 and was not only obviously going to go Labour easily anyway, but if we could only get it back with a targetted campaign, Major was still going to be prime minister. Edmonton went Labour by over 13,000, and the Labour majority there has never sunk below 8,000 since. I remember beling told later that the Edmonton Labour campaign had been so overwhelmed by activists sent in from elsewhere that, from early in the campaign, they had been sending them into Enfield North and, by the final week, were in desperation sending them into Enfield Southgate. I think we did shift some help into Finchley and Golders Green - though seeing that they had three or four times as many active Labour members as Chipping Barnet, that will have made only a minor contribution to the victory there. For the day itself, I think we advised any members who wanted to go across to Edmonton that they could do so but would probably be more likely to be of use in Enfield North or Finchley and Golders Green, but also put on a limited operation in Chipping Barnet, aimed at the two wards where we had councillors, who were going to be up for re-election in 1998. And I will be absolutely thrilled to see Theresa Villiers go down in 2024 (assuming she does). It is very amusing that the Tories even held Edmonton in the first place, considering how grim it is today. |
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Post by finsobruce on Oct 13, 2023 16:41:10 GMT
I think that Labour people *did* go to Portillo's seat in the last week or so before the 1997 GE, whereas Chipping Barnet was almost entirely neglected apart from its local members. It was one of maybe a dozen places that might well have gone Labour then had we actually realised we were in with a chance, but that can be said of most GEs. There was a poll in the Observer that showed Portillo might be in danger, and so many people went to Southgate as a result they had to turn people away and direct them to other seats. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 13, 2023 17:18:48 GMT
I think that Labour people *did* go to Portillo's seat in the last week or so before the 1997 GE, whereas Chipping Barnet was almost entirely neglected apart from its local members. It was one of maybe a dozen places that might well have gone Labour then had we actually realised we were in with a chance, but that can be said of most GEs. There was a poll in the Observer that showed Portillo might be in danger, and so many people went to Southgate as a result they had to turn people away and direct them to other seats. I believe that same piece showed Labour in contention in St Albans. I hope we get some good quality constituency polls before 2024. I remember an ICM poll showing Vince Cable losing Twickenham and he ended up doing so in 2015. |
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Post by batman on Oct 13, 2023 20:30:47 GMT
Not at all, so far as I am aware - if there was any constituency in outer north London that we in Chipping Barnet thought was less likely than Chipping Barnet, it was Enfield Southgate. In fact, instructions from the Labour Party regionally and nationally were to go across to Edmonton, which had been Labour from 1935 to 1983 but Tory since then, to help the campaign there. It had been highly marginal in 1992 and was not only obviously going to go Labour easily anyway, but if we could only get it back with a targetted campaign, Major was still going to be prime minister. Edmonton went Labour by over 13,000, and the Labour majority there has never sunk below 8,000 since. I remember beling told later that the Edmonton Labour campaign had been so overwhelmed by activists sent in from elsewhere that, from early in the campaign, they had been sending them into Enfield North and, by the final week, were in desperation sending them into Enfield Southgate. I think we did shift some help into Finchley and Golders Green - though seeing that they had three or four times as many active Labour members as Chipping Barnet, that will have made only a minor contribution to the victory there. For the day itself, I think we advised any members who wanted to go across to Edmonton that they could do so but would probably be more likely to be of use in Enfield North or Finchley and Golders Green, but also put on a limited operation in Chipping Barnet, aimed at the two wards where we had councillors, who were going to be up for re-election in 1998. And I will be absolutely thrilled to see Theresa Villiers go down in 2024 (assuming she does). It is very amusing that the Tories even held Edmonton in the first place, considering how grim it is today. it should never have been a Conservative seat although Bush Hill Park is a perennially good area for them. When Labour lost Edmonton in 1983, it was a heavily white working-class seat, whereas Tottenham was much more multiethnic. By the 1990s its ethnic character had changed greatly, and so had its political preferences. The sharp swing to the Tories in 1987 was one of Labour's worst results in Britain. |
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Post by uthacalthing on Oct 13, 2023 22:02:34 GMT
can someone explain those things on lampposts to tell Jews that they are in a Jewish area, I think for sabbath purposes? And where do they occur?
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Post by rcronald on Oct 14, 2023 4:12:13 GMT
It is very amusing that the Tories even held Edmonton in the first place, considering how grim it is today. it should never have been a Conservative seat although Bush Hill Park is a perennially good area for them. When Labour lost Edmonton in 1983, it was a heavily white working-class seat, whereas Tottenham was much more multiethnic. By the 1990s its ethnic character had changed greatly, and so had its political preferences. The sharp swing to the Tories in 1987 was one of Labour's worst results in Britain. 1987 Edmonton = 2006 Barking |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2023 5:44:57 GMT
It is very amusing that the Tories even held Edmonton in the first place, considering how grim it is today. although Bush Hill Park is a perennially good area for them. When Labour lost Edmonton in 1983, it was a heavily white working-class seat, whereas Tottenham was much more multiethnic. By the 1990s its ethnic character had changed greatly, and so had its political preferences. The sharp swing to the Tories in 1987 was one of Labour's worst results in Britain. Why shouldn't it? They had a solid base of support in the seat and they won with split opposition in 1983. They had nearly won it in 1959 too. It's similar to Mitcham & Morden where you had (still have) one decent-ish ward for the Tories. Did the Conservatives do better than 1987 anywhere in London in 2019? I'm guessing Bermondsey & Old Southwark and they might have in parts of Dagenham & Rainham, but that seat isn't the '87 constituency given the 2010 boundary changes. |
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Post by batman on Oct 14, 2023 8:23:56 GMT
can someone explain those things on lampposts to tell Jews that they are in a Jewish area, I think for sabbath purposes? And where do they occur? It's a theological thing. Jews are not supposed to do certain things outside the home on the Shabbat, but the things on lampposts you refer to (collectively, it's called an eruv) mean that the entire area contained therein is regarded as the home. Therefore, Orthodox Jews are allowed to do certain things outside the home they wouldn't normally (well, allowed by themselves, to a large extent). I think there are at least two of these in the Borough of Barnet but I can't pretend to have comprehensive knowledge. But, I do know the principle behind them. |
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Post by batman on Oct 14, 2023 8:26:37 GMT
it should never have been a Conservative seat although Bush Hill Park is a perennially good area for them. When Labour lost Edmonton in 1983, it was a heavily white working-class seat, whereas Tottenham was much more multiethnic. By the 1990s its ethnic character had changed greatly, and so had its political preferences. The sharp swing to the Tories in 1987 was one of Labour's worst results in Britain. 1987 Edmonton = 2006 Barking not a bad parallel in some ways, although of course Labour didn't actually lose in Barking, they just lost quite a lot of seats on the council, and the beneficiary party was completely different. I remember being very happy that Nick Griffin was beaten not only by a Jewish Labour candidate (which was almost universally expected) but also by a Jewish Conservative candidate (which was much less universally expected). The borough is not exactly noted for its Jewish community, but Stacey Solomon is a well-known Jewish woman from the borough. (A rather over-excitable one.) |
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Post by rcronald on Oct 14, 2023 8:28:45 GMT
1987 Edmonton = 2006 Barking not a bad parallel in some ways, although of course Labour didn't actually lose in Barking, they just lost quite a lot of seats on the council, and the beneficiary party was completely different. I remember being very happy that Nick Griffin was beaten not only by a Jewish Labour candidate (which was almost universally expected) but also by a Jewish Conservative candidate (which was much less universally expected). The borough is not exactly noted for its Jewish community, but Stacey Solomon is a well-known Jewish woman from the borough. (A rather over-excitable one.) I wrote Barking 2006 and not Barking&Dagenham 2006 because the BNP performed much better in the Barking constituency in the council election, they probably didn’t win the council because of Dagenham. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 14, 2023 8:35:28 GMT
Does anyone know what % of UK Jews are Orthodox versus Reform? Genuine question based on living in Hackney for a year.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 14, 2023 9:45:22 GMT
not a bad parallel in some ways, although of course Labour didn't actually lose in Barking, they just lost quite a lot of seats on the council, and the beneficiary party was completely different. I remember being very happy that Nick Griffin was beaten not only by a Jewish Labour candidate (which was almost universally expected) but also by a Jewish Conservative candidate (which was much less universally expected). The borough is not exactly noted for its Jewish community, but Stacey Solomon is a well-known Jewish woman from the borough. (A rather over-excitable one.) I wrote Barking 2006 and not Barking&Dagenham 2006 because the BNP actually won the Barking constituency in the council election, they didn’t win the council because of Dagenham. I'm not sure they did. I'd have to check but they either performed very poorly or didn;t even have candidates in most of the Western wards of Barking (Abbey, Gascoigne etc) and the BNP margins in the wards they did win would not have been large enough to overcome Labour's margin there. Depends perhaps whether you're talking about the boundaries in use at the time or those that came in in 2010 as some of the best BNP wards like Alibon were moved from Dagenham to Barking then |
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Post by rcronald on Oct 14, 2023 9:46:16 GMT
I wrote Barking 2006 and not Barking&Dagenham 2006 because the BNP actually won the Barking constituency in the council election, they didn’t win the council because of Dagenham. I'm not sure they did. I'd have to check but they either performed very poorly or didn;t even have candidates in most of the Western wards of Barking (Abbey, Gascoigne etc) and the BNP margins in the wards they did win would not have been large enough to overcome Labour's margin there. Depends perhaps whether you're talking about the boundaries in use at the time or those that came in in 2010 as some of the best BNP wards like Alibon were moved from Dagenham to Barking then I’m talking post-2010. Also changed the wording of my previous post so that it doesn’t say that the BNP won Barking for sure. |
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Post by batman on Oct 14, 2023 9:47:42 GMT
Does anyone know what % of UK Jews are Orthodox versus Reform? Genuine question based on living in Hackney for a year. not sure of the exact percentage, but I'm sure many more UK Jews are members of Orthodox than Reform synagogues. Some like me aren't members of any, in fact I'd say a very large number. There are circumstances however in which I would consider joining a synagogue. |
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Post by rcronald on Oct 14, 2023 9:53:06 GMT
Does anyone know what % of UK Jews are Orthodox versus Reform? Genuine question based on living in Hackney for a year. not sure of the exact percentage, but I'm sure many more UK Jews are members of Orthodox than Reform synagogues. Some like me aren't members of any, in fact I'd say a very large number. There are circumstances however in which I would consider joining a synagogue. I grew up secular (and obviously not a member of any synagogue), but when we did go to the Synagogue on holidays like Yom Kipur we went to an Orthodox one. |
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Post by batman on Oct 14, 2023 11:23:53 GMT
not sure of the exact percentage, but I'm sure many more UK Jews are members of Orthodox than Reform synagogues. Some like me aren't members of any, in fact I'd say a very large number. There are circumstances however in which I would consider joining a synagogue. I grew up secular (and obviously not a member of any synagogue), but when we did go to the Synagogue on holidays like Yom Kipur we went to an Orthodox one. my parents were not (and my mother still is not) synagogue members, but my grandmother who lived with us was an active member of the local Orthodox shul. My mother's brother however was Reform & a member of Hugo Gryn's shul. |
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