Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,225
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 21, 2023 8:08:43 GMT
Birmingham is indeed not part of the Black Country. Brum is Brum. Even the wonderful brewers of the Black Country have never bothered acquiring pubs in Birmingham itself. (There aren't half some brilliant ales & pubs in the Black Country.) Hmm, that's not quite true. For many years Ansells and Mitchells & Butlers maintained almost a total duopoly on pub ownership in Birmingham, and it is said that the council were very co-operative in helping them maintain this with the allocation of licences. Even local brewer Davenports, whose brewery was near the city centre found it hard to compete and acquire new pubs under this regime. Wolverhampton & Dudley (Banks's) would have loved to have got a toehold but found barriers put in their way.
Eventually questions were asked and the duopoly was eased. The big two swapped some pubs with Courage, and Banks's did at last manage to get in on the act, but this only happened in the 1980's. The smaller brewers such as Batham's, Holden's and Simpkiss didn't bother and carried on as before with their small estates in the Black Country (though Holden's now seem to have a pub in the Hockley area).
There were no such barriers looking the other way. Ansells and M&B had quite a few pubs in the Black Country, and M&B had breweries in Wolverhampton and Walsall as well as their main site in Cape Hill (actually in Sandwell but on the border with Birmingham), but the beers from those breweries - Springfield Bitter and Highgate Mild - rarely appeared in Birmingham, which many thought was a shame as they were better than M&B's usual Brew XI (a bitter) and Mild from Cape Hill.
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 21, 2023 8:14:26 GMT
Birmingham is indeed not part of the Black Country. Brum is Brum. Even the wonderful brewers of the Black Country have never bothered acquiring pubs in Birmingham itself. (There aren't half some brilliant ales & pubs in the Black Country.) Hmm, that's not quite true. For many years Ansells and Mitchells & Butlers maintained almost a total duopoly on pub ownership in Birmingham, and it is said that the council were very co-operative in helping them maintain this with the allocation of licences. Even local brewer Davenports, whose brewery was near the city centre found it hard to compete and acquire new pubs under this regime. Wolverhampton & Dudley (Banks's) would have loved to have got a toehold but found barriers put in their way.
Eventually questions were asked and the duopoly was eased. The big two swapped some pubs with Courage, and Banks's did at last manage to get in on the act, but this only happened in the 1980's. The smaller brewers such as Batham's, Holden's and Simpkiss didn't bother and carried on as before with their small estates in the Black Country (though Holden's now seem to have a pub in the Hockley area).
There were no such barriers looking the other way. Ansells and M&B had quite a few pubs in the Black Country, and M&B had breweries in Wolverhampton and Walsall as well as their main site in Cape Hill (actually in Sandwell but on the border with Birmingham), but the beers from those breweries - Springfield Bitter and Highgate Mild - rarely appeared in Birmingham, which many thought was a shame as they were better than M&B's usual Brew XI (a bitter) and Mild from Cape Hill.
Ind Coope, Allsopp, Ansells, Mitchell & Butlers please!!
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Aug 21, 2023 9:34:04 GMT
Brew XI ('for the Men of the Midlands') is brewed under licence by Brains. When I worked for MAB there was a discussion about setting up a brewery again but it didn't get very far, which was probably for the best as I suspect it would produce horrible hop water under the guise of craft beer. I seem to recall hearing that the original brand names/trademarks were owned by Coors anyway.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2023 9:45:38 GMT
Brew XI ('for the Men of the Midlands') is brewed under licence by Brains. When I worked for MAB there was a discussion about setting up a brewery again but it didn't get very far, which was probably for the best as I suspect it would produce horrible hop water under the guise of craft beer. I seem to recall hearing that the original brand names/trademarks were owned by Coors anyway. It's a terrible name for a beer - the ale equivalent of giving wards only numbers not names.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,225
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 21, 2023 10:22:21 GMT
Brew XI ('for the Men of the Midlands') is brewed under licence by Brains. When I worked for MAB there was a discussion about setting up a brewery again but it didn't get very far, which was probably for the best as I suspect it would produce horrible hop water under the guise of craft beer. I seem to recall hearing that the original brand names/trademarks were owned by Coors anyway. It's a terrible name for a beer - the ale equivalent of giving wards only numbers not names. M&B were of course part of the Bass empire, which got bought up by Coors*. Another bitter, brewed in Tadcaster, was Brew Ten "for the men of the north". It wasn't distinguished. Stones' bitter, brewed in Sheffield, was reckoned to be much better. Having Brew XI brewed by Brains is probably no bad thing, but you don't see it around much any more even in pubs run by the Mitchells and Butlers group (Ember Inns, for example), whereas before the Beer Orders it was ubiquitous.
* along with Charringtons, Worthington, Welsh Brewers, Tennents and Stones.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2023 10:40:16 GMT
It's a terrible name for a beer - the ale equivalent of giving wards only numbers not names. M&B were of course part of the Bass empire, which got bought up by Coors*. Another bitter, brewed in Tadcaster, was Brew Ten "for the men of the north". It wasn't distinguished. Stones' bitter, brewed in Sheffield, was reckoned to be much better. Having Brew XI brewed by Brains is probably no bad thing, but you don't see it around much any more even in pubs run by the Mitchells and Butlers group (Ember Inns, for example), whereas before the Beer Orders it was ubiquitous.
* along with Charringtons, Worthington, Welsh Brewers, Tennents and Stones.
i wonder if there were ever brews 1-9?
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 21, 2023 11:15:04 GMT
Or perhaps there isn't really a direct comparison between the West Midlands and any US state. And perhaps analysis of the likely outcome of a mayoral election here doesn't require that there be one. Although he has inadvertently raised something that always annoys me and where there is a a direct comparison between Wisconsin and the West Midlands. When pundits go on about the key to the GOP winning Wisconsin being running up the numbers in the WOW counties or Andy Street's path to victory being winning Solihull, Dudley and Walsall they are feigning expertise by simply pointing out that these are areas where a certain party or candidate should be doing well. However as we all should know winning a swing state or marginal seat normally happens through a combination of doing well in your strongholds, winning swing or marginal territory and minimising your defeat in your opponent's stronghold, or at very least two out of three of those factors. Street doesn't win just by well in Solihull and the more middle class areas of the black country, he has to keep the Labour margin down in Birmingham, Sandwell and Coventry. The GOP don't win Wisconsin just be winning the WOW counties, they need some combination of huge rural margins, keeping the Dem margin down in Madison and Milwaukee and winning or at very lest keeping things tight in places like La Crosse and Eau Claire.
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Post by iainbhx on Aug 21, 2023 11:35:36 GMT
Brew XI ('for the Men of the Midlands') is brewed under licence by Brains. When I worked for MAB there was a discussion about setting up a brewery again but it didn't get very far, which was probably for the best as I suspect it would produce horrible hop water under the guise of craft beer. I seem to recall hearing that the original brand names/trademarks were owned by Coors anyway. It's a terrible name for a beer - the ale equivalent of giving wards only numbers not names. Brew XI was a terrible beer as well, as Chris from Brum put it correctly the superior M&B products were Springfield Bitter and Highgate Mild and to be honest, I didn't think a lot of Springfield Bitter.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Aug 21, 2023 11:38:08 GMT
M&B were of course part of the Bass empire, which got bought up by Coors*. Another bitter, brewed in Tadcaster, was Brew Ten "for the men of the north". It wasn't distinguished. Stones' bitter, brewed in Sheffield, was reckoned to be much better. Having Brew XI brewed by Brains is probably no bad thing, but you don't see it around much any more even in pubs run by the Mitchells and Butlers group (Ember Inns, for example), whereas before the Beer Orders it was ubiquitous. * along with Charringtons, Worthington, Welsh Brewers, Tennents and Stones.
i wonder if there were ever brews 1-9? Bass had numbers that were local: I have some old labels somewhere from Bass No.3 which was the Plymouth version. As far as I can tell this was just a variation in caramel to account for local tastes.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2023 11:39:16 GMT
It's a terrible name for a beer - the ale equivalent of giving wards only numbers not names. Brew XI was a terrible beer as well, as Chris from Brum put it correctly the superior M&B products were Springfield Bitter and Highgate Mild and to be honest, I didn't think a lot of Springfield Bitter. I was never in a position to drink it, but when i went to Uni , anybody I met who had experienced it used to speak of it with something approaching absolute horror.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,342
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 21, 2023 12:06:37 GMT
Brummagem is absolutely not Black Country. None of it. It's the one thing Yams agree on. Most of Wolvo, Sandwell, Dudley and Walsall MBC's are Black Country, most, none of us agree exactly on where is and where isn't, there are nearly as many definitions as there are Yams. There are bits of South Staffs and Cannock which are sort of Black Country. It is always fun to note that 'Mordor' translates directly as 'Black Country' and that if one of Tolkien's names looks like it might be a pun or a reference to something, it is about 99% of the time, which is a pretty strong indicator that the sense of a strong distinction is not one of those postwar peculiarities that seem older than they actually are. The trouble with defining the Black County now, of course, is that it's very much a shadow region that no longer exists in the sense that it used to but which still lurks under the surface, seeping through here and there, while also existing as a more generic meaning-free geographical name. In that sense it's very like South Wales.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,342
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Post by Sibboleth on Aug 21, 2023 12:08:15 GMT
Ansells and M&B had quite a few pubs in the Black Country There was an Ansells pub as far West as the Corvedale, would you believe.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Aug 21, 2023 12:59:50 GMT
How come there isn't a Black County combined authority? The 'West Midlands' seems like such a construct. Cf. modern Staffordshire's weird boundaries. Because it would be daft, because it's part of the same urban area as Birmingham. It's not particularly keen on this fact, but it's true and undeniable enough that trying to have it as a rival Combined Authority to Birmingham would make no sense. The part of the West Midlands county that is an outlier is Coventry, but that was a similar case to Sefton - the council wanted to maintain their control over education, which you could do as a met borough but not as a county district.
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Post by batman on Aug 21, 2023 13:33:38 GMT
Birmingham is indeed not part of the Black Country. Brum is Brum. Even the wonderful brewers of the Black Country have never bothered acquiring pubs in Birmingham itself. (There aren't half some brilliant ales & pubs in the Black Country.) Hmm, that's not quite true. For many years Ansells and Mitchells & Butlers maintained almost a total duopoly on pub ownership in Birmingham, and it is said that the council were very co-operative in helping them maintain this with the allocation of licences. Even local brewer Davenports, whose brewery was near the city centre found it hard to compete and acquire new pubs under this regime. Wolverhampton & Dudley (Banks's) would have loved to have got a toehold but found barriers put in their way.
Eventually questions were asked and the duopoly was eased. The big two swapped some pubs with Courage, and Banks's did at last manage to get in on the act, but this only happened in the 1980's. The smaller brewers such as Batham's, Holden's and Simpkiss didn't bother and carried on as before with their small estates in the Black Country (though Holden's now seem to have a pub in the Hockley area).
There were no such barriers looking the other way. Ansells and M&B had quite a few pubs in the Black Country, and M&B had breweries in Wolverhampton and Walsall as well as their main site in Cape Hill (actually in Sandwell but on the border with Birmingham), but the beers from those breweries - Springfield Bitter and Highgate Mild - rarely appeared in Birmingham, which many thought was a shame as they were better than M&B's usual Brew XI (a bitter) and Mild from Cape Hill.
I was thinking primarily of Batham's, Holden's & Simpkiss. I have been to several Bathams & Holdens pubs but sadly Simpkiss closed before I got a chance. It was closed by bloody Greenall Whitley. Bastards they were.
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Post by eastmidlandsright on Aug 21, 2023 13:35:25 GMT
How come there isn't a Black County combined authority? The 'West Midlands' seems like such a construct. Cf. modern Staffordshire's weird boundaries. Because it would be daft, because it's part of the same urban area as Birmingham. It's not particularly keen on this fact, but it's true and undeniable enough that trying to have it as a rival Combined Authority to Birmingham would make no sense. Especially given that transport is one of the significant areas of responsibility for combined authorities.
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Post by batman on Aug 21, 2023 13:36:12 GMT
It's a terrible name for a beer - the ale equivalent of giving wards only numbers not names. Brew XI was a terrible beer as well, as Chris from Brum put it correctly the superior M&B products were Springfield Bitter and Highgate Mild and to be honest, I didn't think a lot of Springfield Bitter. terrible is a bit strong, but it was inferior to the other products you mention. The M&B Mild was perfectly pleasant (maybe it's still brewed under licence?) but Highgate Mild was better. Holden's & Batham's mild ales, however, are better still. Simpkiss didn't brew one in my lifetime but probably did in years past
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Post by batman on Aug 21, 2023 13:37:11 GMT
Ansells and M&B had quite a few pubs in the Black Country There was an Ansells pub as far West as the Corvedale, would you believe. there were many Ansells pubs in SE Wales too. In fact even in Pembrokeshire
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Post by stb12 on Aug 21, 2023 13:39:24 GMT
Or perhaps there isn't really a direct comparison between the West Midlands and any US state. And perhaps analysis of the likely outcome of a mayoral election here doesn't require that there be one. Although he has inadvertently raised something that always annoys me and where there is a a direct comparison between Wisconsin and the West Midlands. When pundits go on about the key to the GOP winning Wisconsin being running up the numbers in the WOW counties or Andy Street's path to victory being winning Solihull, Dudley and Walsall they are feigning expertise by simply pointing out that these are areas where a certain party or candidate should be doing well. However as we all should know winning a swing state or marginal seat normally happens through a combination of doing well in your strongholds, winning swing or marginal territory and minimising your defeat in your opponent's stronghold, or at very least two out of three of those factors. Street doesn't win just by well in Solihull and the more middle class areas of the black country, he has to keep the Labour margin down in Birmingham, Sandwell and Coventry. The GOP don't win Wisconsin just be winning the WOW counties, they need some combination of huge rural margins, keeping the Dem margin down in Madison and Milwaukee and winning or at very lest keeping things tight in places like La Crosse and Eau Claire. Whenever a Republican candidate wins statewide in New York (not happened in a while admittedly) it’s always required them heavily reducing the Democrat margin in New York City, as well as doing really well in the upstate which is generally more friendly to them anyway. Obviously that’s an extreme example considering how much the City population makes up of the whole state
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 21, 2023 13:50:11 GMT
There was an Ansells pub as far West as the Corvedale, would you believe. there were many Ansells pubs in SE Wales too. In fact even in Pembrokeshire Possibly because they had bought out another brewery?
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Post by batman on Aug 21, 2023 13:55:50 GMT
oh, undoubtedly that's what would have happened.
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