Yvette Cooper stands in 2010

[willpower3]

If she rather than Mr Cooper had stood for the Labour leadership, how would she have done? She was less directly associated with the economic record of the previous Labour government and so might have been a better option. She's also sharp on her feet.

[nodealbrexiteer]

She'd have been a remarkably late developer

[The Bishop]

Have always thought her widely overrated, and the fact her husband (I have never been a massive fan of his, either) moved ahead of her in the pecking order after just 5 years in parliament - he was quite well known in political circles before then, admittedly - does sum that up rather.

Her leadership campaign in 2015 was so bad it almost reached parody status.

[stb12]

Oct 24, 2022 9:16:52 GMT The Bishop said:

Have always thought her widely overrated, and the fact her husband (I have never been a massive fan of his, either) moved ahead of her in the pecking order after just 5 years in parliament - he was quite well known in political circles before then, admittedly - does sum that up rather.

Her leadership campaign in 2015 was so bad it almost reached parody status.

Not happy with her recent return to the shadow cabinet then?

[The Bishop]

At least semi-seriously, has anybody noticed?

Given the volume of the calls from her fan club for Cooper's inclusion beforehand, you might think she would make a bit more of an impression.

[mattbewilson]

Oct 24, 2022 9:30:09 GMT The Bishop said:

At least semi-seriously, has anybody noticed?

Given the volume of the calls from her fan club for Cooper's inclusion beforehand, you might think she would make a bit more of an impression.

I think most politicos think politics is like an episode of the west wing. Just stick your fantasy cabinet on the pitch and they'll win the world cup. I'm old enough to remember England's Golden Generation. Truth is Yvette Cooper achieved more as chair of home affairs than she did in government or the shadow cabinet. I said this often but people just want to play fantasy cabinet.

[matureleft]

Oct 24, 2022 10:52:06 GMT mattbewilson said:

Oct 24, 2022 9:30:09 GMT The Bishop said:

At least semi-seriously, has anybody noticed?

Given the volume of the calls from her fan club for Cooper's inclusion beforehand, you might think she would make a bit more of an impression.

I think most politicos think politics is like an episode of the west wing. Just stick your fantasy cabinet on the pitch and they'll win the world cup. I'm old enough to remember England's Golden Generation. Truth is Yvette Cooper achieved more as chair of home affairs than she did in government or the shadow cabinet. I said this often but people just want to play fantasy cabinet.

She's an intelligent woman and would be and was a useful minister but showed no obvious ability (or desire, really) for leadership. 

[bsjmcr]

Not about Mrs Balls but I had a thought, given recent events, and that the Tories are more adept at removing hopeless leaders, why couldn’t Labour MPs have done what the Tories have done now and shifted Corbyn out earlier (I assume the no confidence vote wasn’t binding) and replaced him with the runner up Andy Burnham in 2016? How different things could have been.

(Am I right in thinking the rules are that it always goes to the members and JC would have stood again and not withdrawn so no difference? Though Burnham surely wouldn’t have done as poorly as Owen Thingy!)

Now with Starmer on course to be PM it’s hard to see when Andy’s time to shine will really come - back into cabinet or happy as mayor for the foreseeable, as he isn’t exactly ancient.

[timrollpickering]

Oct 25, 2022 0:42:21 GMT bsjmcr said:

Not about Mrs Balls but I had a thought, given recent events, and that the Tories are more adept at removing hopeless leaders, why couldn’t Labour MPs have done what the Tories have done now and shifted Corbyn out earlier (I assume the no confidence vote wasn’t binding) and replaced him with the runner up Andy Burnham in 2016? How different things could have been.

(Am I right in thinking the rules are that it always goes to the members and JC would have stood again and not withdrawn so no difference? Though Burnham surely wouldn’t have done as poorly as Owen Thingy!)

The PLP motion was purely indicative and had no power to remove the leader despite over 80% voting against him. An election challenge was brought and there were legal opinions that Corbyn wouldn't be able to get on the ballot paper because he had so few MPs backing him, but courts ruled otherwise and so he automatically went forward. The rules clearly did not envisage a scenario where an incumbent with such little support in the PLP would not go quietly.

I would have thought that if anyone would have taken over from Corbyn it would have been Watson as Deputy Leader pending a new election. From memory outside of the Socialist Campaign Group members, Burnham was the heaviest weight in the Shadow Cabinet to not walk out, which probably secured him the Greater Manchester mayoral nomination.

[Merseymike]

Oct 25, 2022 0:42:21 GMT bsjmcr said:

Not about Mrs Balls but I had a thought, given recent events, and that the Tories are more adept at removing hopeless leaders, why couldn’t Labour MPs have done what the Tories have done now and shifted Corbyn out earlier (I assume the no confidence vote wasn’t binding) and replaced him with the runner up Andy Burnham in 2016? How different things could have been.

(Am I right in thinking the rules are that it always goes to the members and JC would have stood again and not withdrawn so no difference? Though Burnham surely wouldn’t have done as poorly as Owen Thingy!)

Now with Starmer on course to be PM it’s hard to see when Andy’s time to shine will really come - back into cabinet or happy as mayor for the foreseeable, as he isn’t exactly ancient.

Burnham was initially seen as the most likely winner in 2015. However, he was stitched up by Harman in her attempt to promote Cooper, and managed to fight a really inept and contradictory campaign. Once he had fallen behind Corbyn that was it.

I would say he has come into his own in Manchester and has a much greater following now.

[rockefeller]

What if Harriet Harman stood in 2010?

[finsobruce]

Oct 25, 2022 15:19:58 GMT rockefeller said:

What if Harriet Harman stood in 2010?

She'd have been on her feet for twelve years.

[timrollpickering]

If Cooper had stood in 2010 it's possible there wouldn't have been so much pressure to put Diane Abbott on the ballot paper since there would already be a women candidate and this in turn would have removed the precedent to have the far left of the party in the contest that played a key role in 2015.

[mattbewilson]

Feb 9, 2023 19:40:38 GMT timrollpickering said:

If Cooper had stood in 2010 it's possible there wouldn't have been so much pressure to put Diane Abbott on the ballot paper since there would already be a women candidate and this in turn would have removed the precedent to have the far left of the party in the contest that played a key role in 2015.

I think there was also a case for the first BAME candidate

[LDCaerdydd]

It was also the case the left wanted a candidate. Cooper standing would not have deterred Abbott/another left candidate.

[timrollpickering]

Feb 9, 2023 20:17:14 GMT LDCaerdydd said:

It was also the case the left wanted a candidate. Cooper standing would not have deterred Abbott/another left candidate.

No but would the additional nominations have been so forthcoming? Some nominated purely to avoid an all male contest - e.g. Harriet Harman.

[LDCaerdydd]

Feb 9, 2023 20:34:05 GMT timrollpickering said:

Feb 9, 2023 20:17:14 GMT LDCaerdydd said:

It was also the case the left wanted a candidate. Cooper standing would not have deterred Abbott/another left candidate.

No but would the additional nominations have been so forthcoming? Some nominated purely to avoid an all male contest - e.g. Harriet Harman.

OK I hear you, but I feel some would have nominated her (as they did with Corbyn) to have a wider debate.

Also Ed Balls only had 33 (the minimum) so where would those have gone?

[European Lefty]

Even had Yvette Cooper won, does anybody seriously think she would have won the 2015 GE? I suspect either a "we're better at Torying than the Tories" Labour would have now been permanently PASOKified (or something pretty close to it), or we would still have had the 2015 leadership election, with the left still fed up of the failure of the supposedly "practical" wing to win the 2015 election and we would still have had a left-wing leader elected.

Now, in some kind of bizarre "trousers-of-time" style twist that leader may not have been Corbyn but there's no actual reason why Cooper winning instead means it wouldn't have been

[right]

Feb 9, 2023 23:33:12 GMT European Lefty said:

Even had Yvette Cooper won, does anybody seriously think she would have won the 2015 GE? I suspect either a "we're better at Torying than the Tories" Labour would have now been permanently PASOKified (or something pretty close to it), or we would still have had the 2015 leadership election, with the left still fed up of the failure of the supposedly "practical" wing to win the 2015 election and we would still have had a left-wing leader elected.

Now, in some kind of bizarre "trousers-of-time" style twist that leader may not have been Corbyn but there's no actual reason why Cooper winning instead means it wouldn't have been

This idea that putting out a competent Tory image has been a deadly flaw in Labour electoral prospects is belied by three consecutive wins by Blair.

A large section of the electorate want a competent (which means right wing economically) government while at the same time not feeling bad about themselves.  Brown broke that in 2010, but would have probably have failed due to the Brown-Blair boom coming to a bust, but Miliband comprehensively broke that.  Corbyn was really comfortable running on Miliband's programme in 2017.

Outside Scotland Labour has no chance of being PASOKified.  Appealing to the centre ground is the only winning strategy for Labour.  I can see that it sucks because that's not the case for the Conservatives, but life often sucks.

[mattbewilson]

Feb 23, 2023 10:49:11 GMT right said:

Feb 9, 2023 23:33:12 GMT European Lefty said:

Even had Yvette Cooper won, does anybody seriously think she would have won the 2015 GE? I suspect either a "we're better at Torying than the Tories" Labour would have now been permanently PASOKified (or something pretty close to it), or we would still have had the 2015 leadership election, with the left still fed up of the failure of the supposedly "practical" wing to win the 2015 election and we would still have had a left-wing leader elected.

Now, in some kind of bizarre "trousers-of-time" style twist that leader may not have been Corbyn but there's no actual reason why Cooper winning instead means it wouldn't have been

This idea that putting out a competent Tory image has been a deadly flaw in Labour electoral prospects is belied by three consecutive wins by Blair.

A large section of the electorate want a competent (which means right wing economically) government while at the same time not feeling bad about themselves.  Brown broke that in 2010, but would have probably have failed due to the Brown-Blair boom coming to a bust, but Miliband comprehensively broke that.  Corbyn was really comfortable running on Miliband's programme in 2017.

Outside Scotland Labour has no chance of being PASOKified.  Appealing to the centre ground is the only winning strategy for Labour.  I can see that it sucks because that's not the case for the Conservatives, but life often sucks.

if anyone has destroyed the idea that right wing economics is competent it's Liz Truss.

People probably would have said Pasokification would never happened in Scotland til it did.