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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2022 9:13:37 GMT
How would history have been different if Gaitskell lived?
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Post by bjornhattan on Apr 1, 2022 9:56:58 GMT
How would history have been different if Gaitskell lived? I see that a general "what if" thread was created earlier this week to tidy up this sub-forum. I appreciate your enthusiasm for alternate political history, but might I possibly suggest using that in future? |
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Post by Deleted on Apr 1, 2022 10:03:27 GMT
How would history have been different if Gaitskell lived? I see that a general "what if" thread was created earlier this week to tidy up this sub-forum. I appreciate your enthusiasm for alternate political history, but might I possibly suggest using that in future? The problem with that thread is you can't see the subject in the title, so I'll stick to these ones (but will make fewer) |
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Post by mattbewilson on Apr 1, 2022 10:19:38 GMT
Michael Foot probably wouldn't have been readmitted but maybe could have re-entered parliament after Gaitskill stood down. If not he'd never have been leader and 1983 may have been different. If Labour had won in 1964 which isn't a sure thing, depends on who you ask but I agree with some that say that 1959 defeat was partly down to promising no increase in taxes and the public didn't believe Labour could deliver their commitments without raising tax, but we might have entered Vietnam. I'd also expect Labour probably wouldn't have abolished prescription charges only to reintroduce them. Open University might have looked a bit different. Areospace might have not been nationalised though that was later on. Tony Benn might have continued as Gaiskillite and again 1983 might have been different.
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Apr 1, 2022 10:31:09 GMT
I see that a general "what if" thread was created earlier this week to tidy up this sub-forum. I appreciate your enthusiasm for alternate political history, but might I possibly suggest using that in future? The problem with that thread is you can't see the subject in the title, so I'll stick to these ones (but will make fewer) New threads on alternatives don't clutter up this forum, as that is what it is for. Make as many threads as you like. |
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Post by Daft H'a'porth A'peth A'pith on Apr 1, 2022 10:42:27 GMT
Michael Foot probably wouldn't have been readmitted but maybe could have re-entered parliament after Gaitskill stood down. If not he'd never have been leader and 1983 may have been different. If Labour had won in 1964 which isn't a sure thing, depends on who you ask but I agree with some that say that 1959 defeat was partly down to promising no increase in taxes and the public didn't believe Labour could deliver their commitments without raising tax, but we might have entered Vietnam. I'd also expect Labour probably wouldn't have abolished prescription charges only to reintroduce them. Open University might have looked a bit different. Areospace might have not been nationalised though that was later on. Tony Benn might have continued as Gaiskillite and again 1983 might have been different.
A big key in this timeline would be how long Gaitskill is Labour leader / PM. It impacts on who succeeds him, does Wilson still become PM, or Callaghan? Could one of the SDP 4 have been Labour leader and therefore that split not happen, so no Liberal Democrats; that maybe the most interesting aspect.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 1, 2022 10:47:04 GMT
A lot more women would have gained considerable pleasure for a while.
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nodealbrexiteer
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Apr 1, 2022 12:34:55 GMT
A lot more women would gained considerable pleasure for a while. Before my time but my reading of him was he seemed decent chap, was trying to do a kind of 'Blair' 30 years prior to the event and was good on the EEC question |
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Post by mattbewilson on Apr 1, 2022 12:58:21 GMT
Michael Foot probably wouldn't have been readmitted but maybe could have re-entered parliament after Gaitskill stood down. If not he'd never have been leader and 1983 may have been different. If Labour had won in 1964 which isn't a sure thing, depends on who you ask but I agree with some that say that 1959 defeat was partly down to promising no increase in taxes and the public didn't believe Labour could deliver their commitments without raising tax, but we might have entered Vietnam. I'd also expect Labour probably wouldn't have abolished prescription charges only to reintroduce them. Open University might have looked a bit different. Areospace might have not been nationalised though that was later on. Tony Benn might have continued as Gaiskillite and again 1983 might have been different.
A big key in this timeline would be how long Gaitskill is Labour leader / PM. It impacts on who succeeds him, does Wilson still become PM, or Callaghan? Could one of the SDP 4 have been Labour leader and therefore that split not happen, so no Liberal Democrats; that maybe the most interesting aspect.
I read something about Harold Wilson's government being a Bolshevik revolution led by a cabinet of tsarists. Wilson wasn't trusted by the Labour right and therefore he went to great lengths to bring them into his tent. Promoting the likes of Roy Jenkins, Shirley Williams, Jim Callaghan, Denis Healey, etc. the question is would that have happened with Gaitskill as leader. Gaitskill had a huge influence over the right and when he died there was a real split particularly over issues like Europe. Gaitskill was eurosceptic but many of his followers were europhiles like Roy Jenkins while others like Tony Benn and Jim Callaghan were not. If Gaitskill was leader and PM it's likely the UK wouldn't have applied to join Europe toward the end of the 60s and even if we'd still have joined in the 70s Gaitskill probably wouldn't have renegotiated terms and if there was a referendum Labour might have recommended leaving. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 1, 2022 13:09:46 GMT
A lot more women would gained considerable pleasure for a while. Before my time but my reading of him was he seemed decent chap, was trying to do a kind of 'Blair' 30 years prior to the event and was good on the EEC question Erudite, cultivated and charming upper middle class and a considerable womaniser when that was often quite admired. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Apr 1, 2022 13:38:59 GMT
Before my time but my reading of him was he seemed decent chap, was trying to do a kind of 'Blair' 30 years prior to the event and was good on the EEC question Erudite, cultivated and charming upper middle class and a considerable womaniser when that was often quite admired. reading Roy Jenkins book it seems quite common too. Gaitskill was clearly an attractive man while Jenkins not so much but that didn't stop him |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Apr 2, 2022 11:47:31 GMT
This one was already done a few years ago, and I remarked then that Vietnam was PM Gaitskell's potential "elephant in the room".
Would he have taken the relatively practical and sensible approach of Wilson (which still, let's not forget, got him a fair bit of "America's poodle" grief from the left) or would he have felt obliged to show his total loyalty to the US in the way Blair did over Iraq? The latter could have had far reaching consequences.
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sirbenjamin
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Post by sirbenjamin on Apr 28, 2022 15:02:26 GMT
He'd now be 116 and the longest-lived person ever in this country. Next month he'd become the oldest man in the history of the world.
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Post by greenchristian on Apr 28, 2022 21:49:17 GMT
He'd now be 116 and the longest-lived person ever in this country. Next month he'd become the oldest man in the history of the world. I think you mean the oldest man whose age can be verified in the history of the world. |
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john07
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Post by john07 on Aug 3, 2022 1:27:33 GMT
He'd now be 116 and the longest-lived person ever in this country. Next month he'd become the oldest man in the history of the world. I think you mean the oldest man whose age can be verified in the history of the world. Leave Methuselah out of this argument. |
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