sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
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Post by sirbenjamin on Feb 23, 2022 11:50:44 GMT
A source of infuration to those like me who dislike inconsistent mixing and matching in constituency names, the Greenwich and Woolwich constituency comprises the North Western portion of the Royal Borough of Greenwich in South East London; the borough gaining 'Royal' status in 2012 as part of the Diamond Jubilee.
As home to a number of landmarks, it is one of the few London seats outside the very centre that attracts significant numbers of visitors from afar. Maritime Greenwich includes the Cutty Sark and the former Royal Naval College, while the O2 arena, previously the controversial Millennium Dome, has defined the landscape of the North Greenwich peninsula for as long as it has been there and is visible from some distance away.
In Greenwich Park (once the terminus of a circuitous branch line) can be found the Royal Observatory, and the unobtrusive passage of the Prime Meridian through the birthplace of GMT, affords a souvenir store an excuse to brand itself 'the first shop in the world'.
Further eastwards, The seat is home to the historic Woolwich dockyard and the Royal Artillery Barracks that were home to Lee Rigby before his murder in 2013. On a happier note, the barracks provide excellent events facilities for the Armed Forces and UK Defence sector.
At its Western edge, the Greenwich-Lewisham border is a strange one, failing to consistently follow the natural boundary of the river Ravensbourne where it joins the Thames, resulting in bits of Deptford being in the Royal Borough rather than Lewisham. The odd border also means that the seat extends very close to Lewisham station, but excludes most of Blackheath.
While the seat is predominantly a riverside one, the inland areas include Charlton, home to the Valley where the football team isn't Athletic enough to win matches and consequently finds itself struggling in the third tier of English football. Blackheath Westcombe ward is home to the only Conservative councillor in the seat as of the 2018 local elections, the remainder all being Labour.
With a majority of over 18,000 in 2019, MP Matthew Pennycook would appear to have a typically safe London seat, as did his predecessor Nick Raynsford, but historically things have been far more varied:
Pre-1997 Greenwich and Woolwich gave their names to two separate seats, both of which were held by the SDP in the 1980s. In Woolwich, John Cartwright (not that one) defected from Labour in 1981 then held his seat at two General Elections under his new colours. Rosie Barnes won the Greenwich seat in a 1987 by-election and held on at the GE that year, but by 1992 both Greenwich and Woolwich had been won back by Labour, despite resilient performances from the two 'Independent SDP' candidates as they had by then become.
(An earlier constituency, Woolwich West, was actually held by current Father of the House Peter Bottomley for the Conservatives in the 1970s, though most of this territory ended up in what is now the Eltham seat.)
To further confuse those unsure which 'wich' is which, Woolwich also historically included an exclave north of the Thames, which disappeared with the London Government Act of 1963, but lingered on in the Woolwich East parliamentary seat until 1974. North Greenwich is technically further north than North Woolwich, but is, of course, south of the Thames.
Returning to the present day, the current Greenwich and Woolwich seat is now a little oversized, and the initial proposals in the latest boundary review will excise the easternmost ward, an area around Plumstead Common, though this is unlikely to make much difference politically.
What were once considered desirable affluent suburbs - the industrial area around Woolwich docks aside - are now, for the most part, generic London housing, with a high proportion of private and social renting. Even so, with strong transport links to the City and to Canary Wharf, one might expect there to be a few more Tories and Liberals here than there appear to be.
Overall a safer seat for Labour than one might perhaps expect.
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Post by Robert Waller on Feb 23, 2022 13:51:27 GMT
2011 Census
Age 65+ 8.4% 632/650
Owner-occupied 32.3% 631/650
Private rented 25.1% 71/650
Social rented 39.3% 12/650
White 58.6% 604/650
Black 20.1% 18/650
Asian 13.9% 82/650
Passports held Africa 6.4% 3/650
Buddhist 2.2% 2/650
Managerial & professional 35.9%
Routine & Semi-routine 19.1%
Routine 8.0% 534/650
Semi-routine 11.1% 545/650
Degree level 40.0% 49/650
No qualifications 17.8% 543 /650
Students 11.4% 80/650
2021 Census
Owner occupied 36.4% 549/573 unusual changes 2011-21
Private rented 30.5% 64/573
Social rented 33.1% 16/573
White 53.4%
Black 21.1%
Asian 14.4%
Managerial & professional 42.2% 70/573
Routine & Semi-routine 17.7% 472/573
Degree level 53.2% 25/573
No qualifications 14.0% 472/573
General Election 2019: Greenwich and Woolwich
Party Candidate Votes % ±%
Labour Matthew Pennycook 30,185 56.8 -7.6
Conservative Thomas Turrell 11,721 22.1 -3.3
Liberal Democrats Rhian O'Connor 7,253 13.7 +6.6
Green Victoria Rance 2,363 4.4 +1.4
Brexit Party Kailash Trivedi 1,228 2.3 New
CPA Eunice Odesanmi 245 0.5 New
Independent Shushil Gaikwad 125 0.2 New
Lab Majority 18,464 34.8 -4.3
Turnout 53,120 66.4 -2.4
Registered electors 79,997
Labour hold
Swing 2.1 Lab to C, 7.1 Lab to LD
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Feb 23, 2022 15:02:09 GMT
2011 CensusPassports held Africa 6.4% 3/650
That's a really odd one. I'd have thought all the Southwark and Lambeth seats would be ahead, probably Lewisham Deptford too, and maybe places with substantial South African populations too.
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Post by bjornhattan on Feb 23, 2022 15:18:05 GMT
2011 CensusPassports held Africa 6.4% 3/650
That's a really odd one. I'd have thought all the Southwark and Lambeth seats would be ahead, probably Lewisham Deptford too, and maybe places with substantial South African populations too.
It's quite polarised - the western wards all have fairly low numbers of people with African passports, but in the Woolwich wards the proportion increases to about 10%.
And if you continue east from Woolwich, you enter Erith and Thamesmead, which has an even higher proportion of African passport holders than this constituency (mainly thanks to Thamesmead).
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Feb 24, 2022 0:55:13 GMT
That's a really odd one. I'd have thought all the Southwark and Lambeth seats would be ahead, probably Lewisham Deptford too, and maybe places with substantial South African populations too.
It's quite polarised - the western wards all have fairly low numbers of people with African passports, but in the Woolwich wards the proportion increases to about 10%.
And if you continue east from Woolwich, you enter Erith and Thamesmead, which has an even higher proportion of African passport holders than this constituency (mainly thanks to Thamesmead).
Strange. I lived about 30 yards from this seat for several years, albeit on the Western side, and I wouldn't have had a clue it was particularly African. I didn't even notice it in Thamesmead when I went to do my jury service there.
OTOH, Peckham has always had an obvious African community, bits of Deptford felt very Nigerian or similar (all those giant African Land Snails for sale...) and there's a truly frightening miniature Somalia in Streatham.
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Post by bjornhattan on Feb 24, 2022 1:23:38 GMT
It's quite polarised - the western wards all have fairly low numbers of people with African passports, but in the Woolwich wards the proportion increases to about 10%.
And if you continue east from Woolwich, you enter Erith and Thamesmead, which has an even higher proportion of African passport holders than this constituency (mainly thanks to Thamesmead).
Strange. I lived about 30 yards from this seat for several years, albeit on the Western side, and I wouldn't have had a clue it was particularly African. I didn't even notice it in Thamesmead when I went to do my jury service there.
OTOH, Peckham has always had an obvious African community, bits of Deptford felt very Nigerian or similar (all those giant African Land Snails for sale...) and there's a truly frightening miniature Somalia in Streatham.
There's been a massive shift in the last thirty years. When you lived in the borough, the Woolwich wards (and Thamesmead) were about 5% "Black African". In 2001 that figure had increased to more like 10-15%, and by 2011 it was 20-25% in Woolwich and 35% in Thamesmead. I would imagine the former might be approaching 30% by now while the latter will be well over 40% (and may even be over 50% - we'll find out in a few months). Black people do make up a greater proportion of the population in wards like Peckham, but there it's more split with more Carribean residents. Because the community has been there longer, there are also more residents classified as "Black Other" - these appear to mostly be younger residents who were born here and identify as Black British. Linked to that, in places like Southwark the fact the community has been established for some times means you'd expect to see fewer people with African passports and more people with British passports. Also, the 2021 census will probably show a decline in the proportion of black residents in areas like Peckham which are experiencing gentrification, so using 2011 figures will actually overestimate the size of the community there - whereas in places like Thamesmead this will be much less of a factor (this constituency will be somewhere in between those two extremes). This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles? |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 6:17:34 GMT
I was born in this seat
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Post by Robert Waller on Feb 24, 2022 11:09:59 GMT
By bjornhattan above: This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles?Yes, I am very much hoping to update the Census stats, and looking forward to the new figures being released. As you mention it, I am sure that you will be in a better place than I to notice where and how these figures will be published, so I would like to ask if you could be kind enough to keep a close eye out, and less us all know here, when and where?!  |
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Post by bjornhattan on Feb 24, 2022 11:22:36 GMT
By bjornhattan above: This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles?Yes, I am very much hoping to update the Census stats, and looking forward to the new figures being released. As you mention it, I am sure that you will be in a better place than I to notice where and how these figures will be published, so I would like to ask if you could be kind enough to keep a close eye out, and less us all know here, when and where?! It is possible that the figures will be published for output areas and local authorities but not constituencies - in that case I'd be more than happy to calculate any statistics you'd like on the constituency boundaries. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,483
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Post by The Bishop on Feb 24, 2022 12:55:15 GMT
Which side of the meridian? |
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Post by Robert Waller on Feb 24, 2022 13:41:48 GMT
By bjornhattan above: This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles?Yes, I am very much hoping to update the Census stats, and looking forward to the new figures being released. As you mention it, I am sure that you will be in a better place than I to notice where and how these figures will be published, so I would like to ask if you could be kind enough to keep a close eye out, and less us all know here, when and where?! It is possible that the figures will be published for output areas and local authorities but not constituencies - in that case I'd be more than happy to calculate any statistics you'd like on the constituency boundaries. Quoted to like (even more!) |
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Post by John Chanin on Feb 24, 2022 14:01:41 GMT
By bjornhattan above: This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles?Yes, I am very much hoping to update the Census stats, and looking forward to the new figures being released. As you mention it, I am sure that you will be in a better place than I to notice where and how these figures will be published, so I would like to ask if you could be kind enough to keep a close eye out, and less us all know here, when and where?!  It is possible that the figures will be published for output areas and local authorities but not constituencies - in that case I'd be more than happy to calculate any statistics you'd like on the constituency boundaries. ONS will eventually get round to publishing data by all recognised units, including constituencies, but they are likely to come after local authorities, LSOAs, and wards. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Feb 24, 2022 14:17:49 GMT
Strange. I lived about 30 yards from this seat for several years, albeit on the Western side, and I wouldn't have had a clue it was particularly African. I didn't even notice it in Thamesmead when I went to do my jury service there.
OTOH, Peckham has always had an obvious African community, bits of Deptford felt very Nigerian or similar (all those giant African Land Snails for sale...) and there's a truly frightening miniature Somalia in Streatham.
There's been a massive shift in the last thirty years. When you lived in the borough, the Woolwich wards (and Thamesmead) were about 5% "Black African". In 2001 that figure had increased to more like 10-15%, and by 2011 it was 20-25% in Woolwich and 35% in Thamesmead. I would imagine the former might be approaching 30% by now while the latter will be well over 40% (and may even be over 50% - we'll find out in a few months). Black people do make up a greater proportion of the population in wards like Peckham, but there it's more split with more Carribean residents. Because the community has been there longer, there are also more residents classified as "Black Other" - these appear to mostly be younger residents who were born here and identify as Black British. Linked to that, in places like Southwark the fact the community has been established for some times means you'd expect to see fewer people with African passports and more people with British passports. Also, the 2021 census will probably show a decline in the proportion of black residents in areas like Peckham which are experiencing gentrification, so using 2011 figures will actually overestimate the size of the community there - whereas in places like Thamesmead this will be much less of a factor (this constituency will be somewhere in between those two extremes). This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles? 30 yards away, not 30 years ago! I lived in Lewisham/Blackheath from 2010 to 2016. But, yes, interesting stuff and good point about the established communities having British passports. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Feb 24, 2022 16:44:30 GMT
By bjornhattan above: This does raise an interesting point, mind. Robert Waller , the 2021 census will start releasing figures within months. Will we be updating the figures in these profiles?Yes, I am very much hoping to update the Census stats, and looking forward to the new figures being released. As you mention it, I am sure that you will be in a better place than I to notice where and how these figures will be published, so I would like to ask if you could be kind enough to keep a close eye out, and less us all know here, when and where?! When are the new census figures out? |
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Post by John Chanin on Feb 24, 2022 19:05:13 GMT
That’s only the basic counts by local authority. It’ll be the autumn before we get any detail, either by topic or by smaller geographic unit. |
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Ports
Non-Aligned
Posts: 300
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Post by Ports on Mar 2, 2022 22:08:14 GMT
Just a small correction to the opener: it's Nick Raynsford.
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sirbenjamin
IFP
True fame is reading your name written in graffiti, but without the words 'is a wanker' after it.
Posts: 4,979
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Post by sirbenjamin on Mar 3, 2022 12:18:21 GMT
Just a small correction to the opener: it's Nick Raynsford.
Corrected.
I'm now worried that subconsciously I had Granny Rayner on my mind when writing it. Urgggghhhh.
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jamesg
Forum Regular
Posts: 253
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Post by jamesg on Mar 3, 2022 23:08:31 GMT
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Nov 29, 2022 18:13:20 GMT
Greenwich & Woolwich is a bit over quota and in both the initial and revised proposals of the boundary commission this is rectified by the removal of Glyndon ward (in the Plumstead area) to Erith & Thamesmead. This is more or less a reversal of the 2010 boundary changes which added that ward. Glyndon is a very safe Labour ward but its move will have far more effect on the almost-but-not-quite marginal Erith & Thamesmead than it will here. Notional result 2019 on the proposed new boundaries | Lab | 25927 | 55.6% | | Con | 10630 | 22.8% | | LD | 6609 | 14.2% | | Grn | 2168 | 4.6% | | BxP | 1023 | 2.2% | | Oth | 308 | 0.7% |
| | | | Majority | 15297 | 32.8% |
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