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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 15:16:50 GMT
but he was black and everything He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). Yes I think people forget that he actually exceeded expectations, in a lost-cause election. He was cannon fodder, someone had to be. |
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 15:20:35 GMT
How a) thick, b) drunk or c) arrogant do you have to be to pose for a photo like that when you know the rest of the city / country is supposed to be in lockdown? But we weren't were we? Britain needs to affect an Italian response to this sort of faff. Nod intelligently, agree, and ignore. Those sort of regulations should be considered indicative, aspirational, confirmatory and very ephemeral. The gibbering frit inclined may use them as an excuse to hold no parties, attend no parties and to pretend that there are no parties. The rest of us do what we like and pretend we are observing the regulations if asked.In Britain, we are far to rule bound and law observing. We are a nation of curtain-twitching nit pickers. Many of you on this Forum are ones such. You agonize over rules and laws and hypocrisy as if your little lives depended upon it. Let those to whom it is important observe and others tacitly ignore and evade. Life works better that way. I think there are more people like that than admit it. To be frank I broke lockdown rules, numerous times. Many will have. That also includes during the restrictions last Xmas, and I know wasn't the only one. Hence, I don't get worked up about the alleged parties at Downing Street. It would be enormously hypocritical. |
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Post by tonyhill on Dec 30, 2021 16:25:34 GMT
I'm not sure that it is actually hypocritical for us plebs to condemn our rulers who ignore the regulations they have tried to impose on us, whether we observe them or not. They are the ones with the power which they have used to make us do something that they are not prepared to do themselves.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 30, 2021 16:32:16 GMT
I'm not sure that it is actually hypocritical for us plebs to condemn our rulers who ignore the regulations they have tried to impose on us, whether we observe them or not. They are the ones with the power which they have used to make us do something that they are not prepared to do themselves. Well it certainly means I’ve no business taking the moral high ground over it. At least that’s how I feel about it. |
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sirbenjamin
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 18:23:13 GMT
But we weren't were we? Britain needs to affect an Italian response to this sort of faff. Nod intelligently, agree, and ignore. Those sort of regulations should be considered indicative, aspirational, confirmatory and very ephemeral. The gibbering frit inclined may use them as an excuse to hold no parties, attend no parties and to pretend that there are no parties. The rest of us do what we like and pretend we are observing the regulations if asked.In Britain, we are far to rule bound and law observing. We are a nation of curtain-twitching nit pickers. Many of you on this Forum are ones such. You agonize over rules and laws and hypocrisy as if your little lives depended upon it. Let those to whom it is important observe and others tacitly ignore and evade. Life works better that way. I think there are more people like that than admit it. To be frank I broke lockdown rules, numerous times. Many will have. That also includes during the restrictions last Xmas, and I know wasn't the only one. Hence, I don't get worked up about the alleged parties at Downing Street. It would be enormously hypocritical. Indeed. The whole purpose of Draconian rules - like the 70 MPH motorway speed limit or 14 units of alcohol a week or COVID rules - is for most people to mostly follow them most of the time, more or less. You'd have to be /extremely/ autistic or the ultimate proponent of passive-aggressive martyrdom and wilful victimhood to not understand this. |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 30, 2021 19:49:11 GMT
I do not oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration Entering a country in order to claim asylum is not illegal. Glad we can agree on that. |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 30, 2021 19:50:33 GMT
I think there are more people like that than admit it. To be frank I broke lockdown rules, numerous times. Many will have. That also includes during the restrictions last Xmas, and I know wasn't the only one. Hence, I don't get worked up about the alleged parties at Downing Street. It would be enormously hypocritical. Indeed. The whole purpose of Draconian rules - like the 70 MPH motorway speed limit or 14 units of alcohol a week or COVID rules - is for most people to mostly follow them most of the time, more or less. You'd have to be /extremely/ autistic or the ultimate proponent of passive-aggressive martyrdom and wilful victimhood to not understand this. It's funny how the "most of the time, more or less" attitude vanishes as soon as an average speed camera appears. |
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Post by grahammurray on Dec 30, 2021 20:17:20 GMT
Entering a country in order to claim asylum is not illegal. Glad we can agree on that. Any claim for asylum from a person feeling France or the EU should be rejected and the person deported forthwith. If they cannot be deported to a safe nation they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate. I would be happy to divert some of our foreign aid budget to running safe internment camps in nations willing to host them. I would be happy to recognize Somaliland and Morocco's southern provinces. I think I could deal with Turkmenistan. I don't know what's wrong with 'feeling France', nor did I realise it's not in the EU. But you're wrong, they should not be deported at all as that's not the law. They certainly shouldn't be interned in some new-fangled British concentration camp on foreign soil. |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 30, 2021 20:37:23 GMT
"they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate."
If only colonial English had taught individuals to avoid such errors.
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 30, 2021 22:04:27 GMT
but he was black and everything He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around. If you believe Sadiq is a 'big beat' and Bailey was a paper candidate, to run him as close as he did would surely give Tories hope. I suppose the fear is that without SV there'll be a bigger squeeze on smaller parties. Many people will have voted Green or Lib Dem and gave their second preference to Sadiq. It's probably within the realms of possibility that they'd still have voted Green or Lib Dem if they thought Sadiq had it in the bag. It's probably not wrong to suggest Sadiq is off to Westminster with maybe someone like Heidi Alexander running but who would the Tories pick, who are they're big London names? |
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sirbenjamin
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 23:04:12 GMT
He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around. If you believe Sadiq is a 'big beat' and Bailey was a paper candidate, to run him as close as he did would surely give Tories hope. I suppose the fear is that without SV there'll be a bigger squeeze on smaller parties. Many people will have voted Green or Lib Dem and gave their second preference to Sadiq. It's probably within the realms of possibility that they'd still have voted Green or Lib Dem if they thought Sadiq had it in the bag. It's probably not wrong to suggest Sadiq is off to Westminster with maybe someone like Heidi Alexander running but who would the Tories pick, who are they're big London names?
There aren't many 'big London names'. Bailey and Goldsmith have already had a go. Ed Lister is too old and now in the Lords. Victoria Borwick also now pretty old. Ravi Govindia is a possibility if Wandsworth goes Labour and he wants to do something other than leading the opposition group. Justine Greening may not even be a Tory these days... all of which brings us back to Boff the Bear for the Gazillionth time...
If I was going to make a big prediction, and this is purely on a hunch, I think Claire Coutinho might go for it in 2028. Kemi Badenoch also a possibility. Neither represent London seats, obviously, but both have roots there and aren't based a million miles away.
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 30, 2021 23:07:24 GMT
I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around. If you believe Sadiq is a 'big beat' and Bailey was a paper candidate, to run him as close as he did would surely give Tories hope. I suppose the fear is that without SV there'll be a bigger squeeze on smaller parties. Many people will have voted Green or Lib Dem and gave their second preference to Sadiq. It's probably within the realms of possibility that they'd still have voted Green or Lib Dem if they thought Sadiq had it in the bag. It's probably not wrong to suggest Sadiq is off to Westminster with maybe someone like Heidi Alexander running but who would the Tories pick, who are they're big London names?
There aren't many 'big London names'. Bailey and Goldsmith have already had a go. Ed Lister is too old and now in the Lords. Victoria Borwick also now pretty old. Ravi Govindia is a possibility if Wandsworth goes Labour and he wants to do something other than leading the opposition group. Justine Greening may not even be a Tory these days... all of which brings us back to Boff the Bear for the Gazillionth time...
If I was going to make a big prediction, and this is purely on a hunch, I think Claire Coutinho might go for it in 2028. Kemi Badenoch also a possibility. Neither represent London seats, obviously, but both have roots there and aren't based a million miles away.
tbf Henley isn't London but didn't stop Boris. If the fellow from Harlow wanted it he'd be a good choice |
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 30, 2021 23:10:01 GMT
actually bit of out of the box thinking but if the fellow from Harlow did stand but not as a conservative rather as a workers conservative or something with tory backing that work well
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sirbenjamin
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 23:31:57 GMT
actually bit of out of the box thinking but if the fellow from Harlow did stand but not as a conservative rather as a workers conservative or something with tory backing that work well
Not who you meant, I know, but we could do a hell of a lot worse than bringing back Jerry Hayes to stand...
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 30, 2021 23:33:12 GMT
Any claim for asylum from a person feeling France or the EU should be rejected and the person deported forthwith. If they cannot be deported to a safe nation they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate. I would be happy to divert some of our foreign aid budget to running safe internment camps in nations willing to host them. I would be happy to recognize Somaliland and Morocco's southern provinces. I think I could deal with Turkmenistan. I don't know what's wrong with 'feeling France', nor did I realise it's not in the EU. But you're wrong, they should not be deported at all as that's not the law. They certainly shouldn't be interned in some new-fangled British concentration camp on foreign soil. So....... what should be done with people found to have no legal right to be in this country? Asking as the uncle of a person who had a legal right to be in this country, yet was deported. |
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Post by Adam in Stroud on Dec 30, 2021 23:53:33 GMT
I know we have many threads for discussing all forms of migration but we can always manage another. They follow a consistent pattern. A person considered to be right if centre mentions the shambles of all policy in this field and a person considered left of centre “replies” with a snide comment that implies but does not overtly state that this like all other mentions of the failings of our migration policies are motivated by racism. And usually the right of centre crowd who have amongst our numbers immigrants, family of immigrants and enthusiasts for economic migration respond to the suggestions of racism by telling the left to fuck off so the topic peters out in the usual recrimination and the wishes of the left to never ever discuss the issue have been satisfied. But you keep losing elections even to this rabble of a government and your heartland has deserted you in part on this issue Come on little left wing buddies. Offer me a coherent raft of policies. It’s me, Boog, free market headcase, I am cool about net numbers, I gave already said that I think we can take up to a million annually and still remain or more accurately become once more the liberal democracy that us so attractive to migrants. Go on offer me a policy platform Tell you what, Boogs, I am also cool on the numbers and favour a free market approach. But since it is you "on the right" who think immigration policy is a shambles, and also as it is you "on the right" who (as you note) have been in charge of it for over 10 years, why don't you come up with a policy. So long as it doesn't involve idiot bureaucrats coming up with thousand page regulations to generally bugger up the lives of ordinary people trying to make a living, or cots me unnecessary tax to pay for said idiot bureaucrats or hundreds of patrol bats in the Channel or similar nonsenses. Personally I have better things to worry about than the eternal moral panic about migrants, which has been going on since the Jews in the C19th, if not the Flemings way back when, and so should the government. |
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 31, 2021 8:57:16 GMT
actually bit of out of the box thinking but if the fellow from Harlow did stand but not as a conservative rather as a workers conservative or something with tory backing that work well
Not who you meant, I know, but we could do a hell of a lot worse than bringing back Jerry Hayes to stand...
Just read up on him, sounds like a fairly decent person |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 31, 2021 9:54:52 GMT
I do not oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration Entering a country in order to claim asylum is not illegal. Glad we can agree on that. It would be if I was running a country. |
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Post by andrew111 on Dec 31, 2021 11:13:49 GMT
I'm not sure that it is actually hypocritical for us plebs to condemn our rulers who ignore the regulations they have tried to impose on us, whether we observe them or not. They are the ones with the power which they have used to make us do something that they are not prepared to do themselves. I try not to take the moral high ground over either politicians or neighbours breaking lockdown rules when I have been selective myself. But surely I can take pleasure at the discomfort of the arrogant privileged bastards pretending to run this country when they are exposed as hypocrites? |
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Dec 31, 2021 17:50:08 GMT
He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around Apart from anything else, this assumes the dynamics of the race remain unchanged even if there is a switch to FPTP. And there may be some truth in the idea that Bailey only did as well as he did last time because he was almost universally perceived to have no chance. (a bit like some claim about Corbyn in 2017, except there may be a bit more evidence for it this time) |
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