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Post by carlton43 on Dec 17, 2021 14:26:24 GMT
Bailey was a very bad choice of candidate indeed. but he was black and everything Yes. A box ticking exercise and not a choice to reflect policy and aspiration and quality. In that it perfectly encapsulates the modern Conservative party, really from post-Thatcher and certainly from Cameron. It is all about presentation, surface, fashion and ticking alt.woke boxes, as it is in the BBC, multinationals, local government and the government. Is the person or this pseudo policy positioned to pass the acid tests of acceptability to the alt.woke opinion formers and intelligentsia? We may need actual blunt object trauma to correct this. It may happen, by pissing off the clubbers, the fans, the drinkers, the workers and everyone fully awake to the nonsense of lockdowns, to see how much the frit have stiffed them and their lives for two years, followed by some major violence. Something has got to give soon. And I am not and have not advocated such violence and would never be part of it, but I can see it looming. |
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sirbenjamin
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 14:42:23 GMT
Bailey was a very bad choice of candidate indeed. but he was black and everything He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). |
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Post by johnyorks on Dec 30, 2021 15:16:50 GMT
but he was black and everything He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). Yes I think people forget that he actually exceeded expectations, in a lost-cause election. He was cannon fodder, someone had to be. |
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Post by johnyorks on Dec 30, 2021 15:20:35 GMT
How a) thick, b) drunk or c) arrogant do you have to be to pose for a photo like that when you know the rest of the city / country is supposed to be in lockdown? But we weren't were we? Britain needs to affect an Italian response to this sort of faff. Nod intelligently, agree, and ignore. Those sort of regulations should be considered indicative, aspirational, confirmatory and very ephemeral. The gibbering frit inclined may use them as an excuse to hold no parties, attend no parties and to pretend that there are no parties. The rest of us do what we like and pretend we are observing the regulations if asked.In Britain, we are far to rule bound and law observing. We are a nation of curtain-twitching nit pickers. Many of you on this Forum are ones such. You agonize over rules and laws and hypocrisy as if your little lives depended upon it. Let those to whom it is important observe and others tacitly ignore and evade. Life works better that way. I think there are more people like that than admit it. To be frank I broke lockdown rules, numerous times. Many will have. That also includes during the restrictions last Xmas, and I know wasn't the only one. Hence, I don't get worked up about the alleged parties at Downing Street. It would be enormously hypocritical. |
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Post by tonyhill on Dec 30, 2021 16:25:34 GMT
I'm not sure that it is actually hypocritical for us plebs to condemn our rulers who ignore the regulations they have tried to impose on us, whether we observe them or not. They are the ones with the power which they have used to make us do something that they are not prepared to do themselves.
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Post by johnyorks on Dec 30, 2021 16:32:16 GMT
I'm not sure that it is actually hypocritical for us plebs to condemn our rulers who ignore the regulations they have tried to impose on us, whether we observe them or not. They are the ones with the power which they have used to make us do something that they are not prepared to do themselves. Well it certainly means I’ve no business taking the moral high ground over it. At least that’s how I feel about it. |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
There are so many things for which I'd commit suicide; the problem is you only get to do it once.
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 18:23:13 GMT
But we weren't were we? Britain needs to affect an Italian response to this sort of faff. Nod intelligently, agree, and ignore. Those sort of regulations should be considered indicative, aspirational, confirmatory and very ephemeral. The gibbering frit inclined may use them as an excuse to hold no parties, attend no parties and to pretend that there are no parties. The rest of us do what we like and pretend we are observing the regulations if asked.In Britain, we are far to rule bound and law observing. We are a nation of curtain-twitching nit pickers. Many of you on this Forum are ones such. You agonize over rules and laws and hypocrisy as if your little lives depended upon it. Let those to whom it is important observe and others tacitly ignore and evade. Life works better that way. I think there are more people like that than admit it. To be frank I broke lockdown rules, numerous times. Many will have. That also includes during the restrictions last Xmas, and I know wasn't the only one. Hence, I don't get worked up about the alleged parties at Downing Street. It would be enormously hypocritical. Indeed. The whole purpose of Draconian rules - like the 70 MPH motorway speed limit or 14 units of alcohol a week or COVID rules - is for most people to mostly follow them most of the time, more or less. You'd have to be /extremely/ autistic or the ultimate proponent of passive-aggressive martyrdom and wilful victimhood to not understand this. |
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Post by boogieeck on Dec 30, 2021 19:41:46 GMT
This is one of those frustrating issues where it does not matter how laboriously I state my position, it is constantly misrepresented
I do not oppose vaccines. I oppose mandates and lockdowns
I do not oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration
I do not object to them having parries. I object to them passing laws to ban others having parties that they knew (their own actions demonstrate this) to have no merit.
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 30, 2021 19:49:11 GMT
I do not oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration Entering a country in order to claim asylum is not illegal. Glad we can agree on that. |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 30, 2021 19:50:33 GMT
I think there are more people like that than admit it. To be frank I broke lockdown rules, numerous times. Many will have. That also includes during the restrictions last Xmas, and I know wasn't the only one. Hence, I don't get worked up about the alleged parties at Downing Street. It would be enormously hypocritical. Indeed. The whole purpose of Draconian rules - like the 70 MPH motorway speed limit or 14 units of alcohol a week or COVID rules - is for most people to mostly follow them most of the time, more or less. You'd have to be /extremely/ autistic or the ultimate proponent of passive-aggressive martyrdom and wilful victimhood to not understand this. It's funny how the "most of the time, more or less" attitude vanishes as soon as an average speed camera appears. |
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Post by boogieeck on Dec 30, 2021 20:02:39 GMT
I do not oppose immigration. I oppose illegal immigration Entering a country in order to claim asylum is not illegal. Glad we can agree on that. Any claim for asylum from a person feeling France or the EU should be rejected and the person deported forthwith. If they cannot be deported to a safe nation they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate. I would be happy to divert some of our foreign aid budget to running safe internment camps in nations willing to host them. I would be happy to recognize Somaliland and Morocco's southern provinces. I think I could deal with Turkmenistan. |
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Post by grahammurray on Dec 30, 2021 20:17:20 GMT
Entering a country in order to claim asylum is not illegal. Glad we can agree on that. Any claim for asylum from a person feeling France or the EU should be rejected and the person deported forthwith. If they cannot be deported to a safe nation they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate. I would be happy to divert some of our foreign aid budget to running safe internment camps in nations willing to host them. I would be happy to recognize Somaliland and Morocco's southern provinces. I think I could deal with Turkmenistan. I don't know what's wrong with 'feeling France', nor did I realise it's not in the EU. But you're wrong, they should not be deported at all as that's not the law. They certainly shouldn't be interned in some new-fangled British concentration camp on foreign soil. |
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Post by owainsutton on Dec 30, 2021 20:37:23 GMT
"they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate."
If only colonial English had taught individuals to avoid such errors.
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 30, 2021 22:04:27 GMT
but he was black and everything He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around. If you believe Sadiq is a 'big beat' and Bailey was a paper candidate, to run him as close as he did would surely give Tories hope. I suppose the fear is that without SV there'll be a bigger squeeze on smaller parties. Many people will have voted Green or Lib Dem and gave their second preference to Sadiq. It's probably within the realms of possibility that they'd still have voted Green or Lib Dem if they thought Sadiq had it in the bag. It's probably not wrong to suggest Sadiq is off to Westminster with maybe someone like Heidi Alexander running but who would the Tories pick, who are they're big London names? |
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sirbenjamin
IFP
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 23:04:12 GMT
He performed a fair bit better than expectations. He was never going to win, but then it's hard to imagine any Tory candidate winning London under those conditions. I'm not at all convinced he was a 'bad' candidate. An expendable one who was able to achieve a bit of damage limitation. Boy done alright. The reality is that there almost certainly won't be another Conservative Mayor of London until we've had a Labour government for long enough for it to become deeply unpopular (or something else radical happens like the Greater London boundary being extended). I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around. If you believe Sadiq is a 'big beat' and Bailey was a paper candidate, to run him as close as he did would surely give Tories hope. I suppose the fear is that without SV there'll be a bigger squeeze on smaller parties. Many people will have voted Green or Lib Dem and gave their second preference to Sadiq. It's probably within the realms of possibility that they'd still have voted Green or Lib Dem if they thought Sadiq had it in the bag. It's probably not wrong to suggest Sadiq is off to Westminster with maybe someone like Heidi Alexander running but who would the Tories pick, who are they're big London names?
There aren't many 'big London names'. Bailey and Goldsmith have already had a go. Ed Lister is too old and now in the Lords. Victoria Borwick also now pretty old. Ravi Govindia is a possibility if Wandsworth goes Labour and he wants to do something other than leading the opposition group. Justine Greening may not even be a Tory these days... all of which brings us back to Boff the Bear for the Gazillionth time...
If I was going to make a big prediction, and this is purely on a hunch, I think Claire Coutinho might go for it in 2028. Kemi Badenoch also a possibility. Neither represent London seats, obviously, but both have roots there and aren't based a million miles away.
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 30, 2021 23:07:24 GMT
I suppose the question is could they have done better without him and tbf without SV is Labour in trouble next time around. If you believe Sadiq is a 'big beat' and Bailey was a paper candidate, to run him as close as he did would surely give Tories hope. I suppose the fear is that without SV there'll be a bigger squeeze on smaller parties. Many people will have voted Green or Lib Dem and gave their second preference to Sadiq. It's probably within the realms of possibility that they'd still have voted Green or Lib Dem if they thought Sadiq had it in the bag. It's probably not wrong to suggest Sadiq is off to Westminster with maybe someone like Heidi Alexander running but who would the Tories pick, who are they're big London names?
There aren't many 'big London names'. Bailey and Goldsmith have already had a go. Ed Lister is too old and now in the Lords. Victoria Borwick also now pretty old. Ravi Govindia is a possibility if Wandsworth goes Labour and he wants to do something other than leading the opposition group. Justine Greening may not even be a Tory these days... all of which brings us back to Boff the Bear for the Gazillionth time...
If I was going to make a big prediction, and this is purely on a hunch, I think Claire Coutinho might go for it in 2028. Kemi Badenoch also a possibility. Neither represent London seats, obviously, but both have roots there and aren't based a million miles away.
tbf Henley isn't London but didn't stop Boris. If the fellow from Harlow wanted it he'd be a good choice |
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Post by boogieeck on Dec 30, 2021 23:07:32 GMT
I know we have many threads for discussing all forms of migration but we can always manage another. They follow a consistent pattern. A person considered to be right if centre mentions the shambles of all policy in this field and a person considered left of centre “replies” with a snide comment that implies but does not overtly state that this like all other mentions of the failings of our migration policies are motivated by racism.
And usually the right of centre crowd who have amongst our numbers immigrants, family of immigrants and enthusiasts for economic migration respond to the suggestions of racism by telling the left to fuck off so the topic peters out in the usual recrimination and the wishes of the left to never ever discuss the issue have been satisfied.
But you keep losing elections even to this rabble of a government and your heartland has deserted you in part on this issue
Come on little left wing buddies. Offer me a coherent raft of policies. It’s me, Boog, free market headcase, I am cool about net numbers, I gave already said that I think we can take up to a million annually and still remain or more accurately become once more the liberal democracy that us so attractive to migrants.
Go on offer me a policy platform
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Post by mattbewilson on Dec 30, 2021 23:10:01 GMT
actually bit of out of the box thinking but if the fellow from Harlow did stand but not as a conservative rather as a workers conservative or something with tory backing that work well
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sirbenjamin
IFP
There are so many things for which I'd commit suicide; the problem is you only get to do it once.
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Post by sirbenjamin on Dec 30, 2021 23:31:57 GMT
actually bit of out of the box thinking but if the fellow from Harlow did stand but not as a conservative rather as a workers conservative or something with tory backing that work well
Not who you meant, I know, but we could do a hell of a lot worse than bringing back Jerry Hayes to stand...
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 30, 2021 23:33:12 GMT
Any claim for asylum from a person feeling France or the EU should be rejected and the person deported forthwith. If they cannot be deported to a safe nation they should be interned in a facility of the UK government on the continent from which they originate. I would be happy to divert some of our foreign aid budget to running safe internment camps in nations willing to host them. I would be happy to recognize Somaliland and Morocco's southern provinces. I think I could deal with Turkmenistan. I don't know what's wrong with 'feeling France', nor did I realise it's not in the EU. But you're wrong, they should not be deported at all as that's not the law. They certainly shouldn't be interned in some new-fangled British concentration camp on foreign soil. So....... what should be done with people found to have no legal right to be in this country? Asking as the uncle of a person who had a legal right to be in this country, yet was deported. |
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