Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 26, 2021 23:41:23 GMT
What a shame Barbados didn't take the opportunity not to just abolish the whole head of state nonsense. I'm not getting the point of transplanting a heredity ceremonial monarch for an elected one... Who represents the state when you don't have a head of state? Same as most of the time with most countries, whoever the appropriate representative of the country is depending on the context. It's actually extremely rare that you have to have a head of state represent the state other than when it's convention that they do. And even then, there's often mitigation to allow for occasions when the head of state cannot be present for any reason. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 27, 2021 0:09:54 GMT
No and they can't kick us out either But the first Booglian government will give them a significantly inferior deal as regards Freedom of Movement than it offers Jamaica Jamaica, a global cocaine and pot hub, has a significant organised crime problem. Why would you want to import that? What makes you think the inhabitants of that island would continue in organised crime if they were provided a way out? |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 27, 2021 0:22:53 GMT
Jamaica, a global cocaine and pot hub, has a significant organised crime problem. Why would you want to import that? What makes you think the inhabitants of that island would continue in organised crime if they were provided a way out? The Jamaican people are wonderful, I'm sure. However, the Yardie gangs would love the opportunity to commute regularly and unhindered between their hub and a major densely populated new market. |
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Post by Delighted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 27, 2021 1:10:05 GMT
What makes you think the inhabitants of that island would continue in organised crime if they were provided a way out? The Jamaican people are wonderful, I'm sure. However, the Yardie gangs would love the opportunity to commute regularly and unhindered between their hub and a major densely populated new market. The Yardie gangs would be no match for our military, they only have any sort of power in Jamaica because their police force, the JCF, is absolutely riddled with corruption. It's still not an easy journey with the cost of travel and security at airport making drug imports just as difficult. |
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Post by ibfc on Oct 27, 2021 4:02:07 GMT
Having a President is never a good decision. But good luck I guess to them. Who would you want as Indian monarch, were a monarchy an option? The Maharana of Mewar. |
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Post by ibfc on Oct 27, 2021 4:06:36 GMT
Their new system for choosing future presidents does seem odd and rather likely to lead to difficulties further down the line. Consensus is all well and good when it exists (and when there is an obvious candidate), but there are no guarantees it will last. Edit: I would also imagine it's quite rare for a Leader of the Opposition to be given constitutional powers in this way, given the lack of official legal status it tends to hold in Westminster-style democracies. I think the idea is that there’ll be social pressure to create a consensus which is a good way of electing a President if you are that desperate to have one. |
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Post by carlton43 on Oct 27, 2021 8:16:59 GMT
Jamaica, a global cocaine and pot hub, has a significant organised crime problem. Why would you want to import that? What makes you think the inhabitants of that island would continue in organised crime if they were provided a way out? Their habituation and my experience. |
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 38,925
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Post by The Bishop on Oct 27, 2021 10:56:57 GMT
Having a President is never a good decision. But good luck I guess to them. Just a slightly sweeping statement, that is not really borne out by the facts. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 12:03:55 GMT
Thing is I don’t think presidential systems have exactly proven themselves to be (relatively speaking) more unifying, more competent or more stable than monarchies.
Obviously I understand the idea that an Australian might not like having a British Head of State who lives on the other side of the world.
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Post by seanryanj on Oct 27, 2021 12:34:59 GMT
Good for Barbados, makes sense for a country to have its head of state residing in the country.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 27, 2021 13:30:50 GMT
Having a President is never a good decision. But good luck I guess to them. Just a slightly sweeping statement, that is not really borne out by the facts. I agree with him. Republics invariably follow a few common paths. They become authoritarian, they get captured and become oligarchical, they become hyper partisan and undermine the office of head of state, they become imperial quasi-ceasars or they deliberately ape constitutional monarchy, except without the prestige, legitimacy and heritage. Monarchy is inherently stable and the natural human form of government in my view, hence the fascination and fervent loyalty they inspire, and that's why we're very lucky to have one. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 27, 2021 13:46:59 GMT
I see the very British hilariously mistaken assumption that the UK has been the primary recipient of Jamaican emigration for much more than a dozen years of the postwar era rears its ugly head again.
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Post by bjornhattan on Oct 27, 2021 14:12:44 GMT
I see the very British hilariously mistaken assumption that the UK has been the primary recipient of Jamaican emigration for much more than a dozen years of the postwar era rears its ugly head again. Yes - I believe that the "Black Carribean" ethnic group in the census has one of the oldest age profiles. About a third of the community were born in the 1950s or 1960s, and a very low proportion are children. And it's entirely possible that the 2021 census will find more mixed race people of Carribean descent than black people of Carribean descent - it was pretty close in 2011. Which would be a pretty obvious sign of assimilation. |
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Post by minionofmidas on Oct 27, 2021 14:40:04 GMT
I see the very British hilariously mistaken assumption that the UK has been the primary recipient of Jamaican emigration for much more than a dozen years of the postwar era rears its ugly head again. Yes - I believe that the "Black Carribean" ethnic group in the census has one of the oldest age profiles. About a third of the community were born in the 1950s or 1960s, and a very low proportion are children. And it's entirely possible that the 2021 census will find more mixed race people of Carribean descent than black people of Carribean descent - it was pretty close in 2011. Which would be a pretty obvious sign of assimilation. Jamaicans are also somewhat underrepresented (though of course the largest group) within that group compared to their share of the Caribbean's Black Ex-British population. Meanwhile there's four times as many Jamaicans in the US and a comparable (to the UK) number in Canada. More than a third of Jamaicans worldwide live off the island. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2021 15:03:18 GMT
Just a slightly sweeping statement, that is not really borne out by the facts. I agree with him. Republics invariably follow a few common paths. They become authoritarian, they get captured and become oligarchical, they become hyper partisan and undermine the office of head of state, they become imperial quasi-ceasars or they deliberately ape constitutional monarchy, except without the prestige, legitimacy and heritage. Monarchy is inherently stable and the natural human form of government in my view, hence the fascination and fervent loyalty they inspire, and that's why we're very lucky to have one. Even if the sentiment is generally accurate (and I'm not for a moment saying it is) you should know better than ti claim it is "invariably" the case. You're a history student FFS |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,815 
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 27, 2021 17:09:01 GMT
Having a President is never a good decision. But good luck I guess to them. Just a slightly sweeping statement, that is not really borne out by the facts. As someone, who will have had to live for 6-12 years with this face (a technician/specialist, whose favourite lecture are comics...):  ... i can assure, that it is borne out by the facts! Slick politicians playing pater patriae is absolutely terrible! (Although it cannot be denied, that most "monarchs" don't appear differently than a president these days.) |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 27, 2021 18:08:31 GMT
I agree with him. Republics invariably follow a few common paths. They become authoritarian, they get captured and become oligarchical, they become hyper partisan and undermine the office of head of state, they become imperial quasi-ceasars or they deliberately ape constitutional monarchy, except without the prestige, legitimacy and heritage. Monarchy is inherently stable and the natural human form of government in my view, hence the fascination and fervent loyalty they inspire, and that's why we're very lucky to have one. Even if the sentiment is generally accurate (and I'm not for a moment saying it is) you should know better than ti claim it is "invariably" the case. You're a history student FFS OK. I'm sure you'll be able to provide us with an exhaustive list of republics that don't meet any of those criteria. Whether it be an oligarchical hyper partisan Presidency, like America, an imperial one, like France, or one that seeks to ape a constitutional monarchy, like Ireland, Germany, Austria and Italy. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 27, 2021 18:12:07 GMT
Even if the sentiment is generally accurate (and I'm not for a moment saying it is) you should know better than ti claim it is "invariably" the case. You're a history student FFS OK. I'm sure you'll be able to provide us with an exhaustive list of republics that don't meet any of those criteria. Whether it be an oligarchical hyper partisan Presidency, like America, an imperial one, like France, or one that seeks to ape a constitutional monarchy, like Ireland, Germany, Austria and Italy. But none of them are Republics (no matter how much they label themselves as such), they just have elected heads of state. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Oct 28, 2021 19:12:38 GMT
I see the very British hilariously mistaken assumption that the UK has been the primary recipient of Jamaican emigration for much more than a dozen years of the postwar era rears its ugly head again. Yes - I believe that the "Black Carribean" ethnic group in the census has one of the oldest age profiles. About a third of the community were born in the 1950s or 1960s, and a very low proportion are children. And it's entirely possible that the 2021 census will find more mixed race people of Carribean descent than black people of Carribean descent - it was pretty close in 2011. Which would be a pretty obvious sign of assimilation. It's interesting which islands people trace their family too as well, as it seems to differ heavily in different cities. A surprising number of people I've worked with have parents from St Kitts and they also tend to be based around Leeds. |
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Post by Merseymike on Oct 28, 2021 19:28:33 GMT
Yes - I believe that the "Black Carribean" ethnic group in the census has one of the oldest age profiles. About a third of the community were born in the 1950s or 1960s, and a very low proportion are children. And it's entirely possible that the 2021 census will find more mixed race people of Carribean descent than black people of Carribean descent - it was pretty close in 2011. Which would be a pretty obvious sign of assimilation. It's interesting which islands people trace their family too as well, as it seems to differ heavily in different cities. A surprising number of people I've worked with have parents from St Kitts and they also tend to be based around Leeds. Most of the Caribbean population of High Wycombe came from St Vincent |
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