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Post by finsobruce on Oct 12, 2021 18:42:27 GMT
I’m a bit puzzled about why the thread is asking us to predict things which are inherently unpredictable. because some of Labour and Conservative chums must know who of their MPs is inherently in the wrong party I am inviting members to out one of their supposed own So will you be doing the Scottish Libertarians? |
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peterl
Green
Congratulations President Trump
Posts: 8,473 
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Post by peterl on Oct 12, 2021 19:04:25 GMT
I would not be astonished as they seem to move closer and closer if at least one Green MSP joined the SNP in the next 4 or 5 years. I would be astonished and I'm a lot closer to the situation than you. Perhaps but they are all sitting at the same table now with increasingly little ground apart on policy. That means all it would take is some dissatisfaction to creep in for one individual - being passed over for some position perhaps. No one specific in mind of course. |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,905
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 12, 2021 19:48:05 GMT
I would be astonished and I'm a lot closer to the situation than you. Perhaps but they are all sitting at the same table now with increasingly little ground apart on policy. That means all it would take is some dissatisfaction to creep in for one individual - being passed over for some position perhaps. No one specific in mind of course. I think that displays a fundamental lack of understanding of both the dynamics and the specifics of the agreement. The main arguments in favour of the political co-operation agreement by it's proponents were to push the SNP in a greener direction where they wouldn't go if left to themselves. If there were to be a defection it would be far more likely to be somebody leaving because they feel there has been too much compromise with the SNP, not moving towards the SNP. I wouldn't entirely rule out a defection in the other direction, from the SNP, though |
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stb12
Top Poster
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Post by stb12 on Oct 13, 2021 11:28:52 GMT
Perhaps but they are all sitting at the same table now with increasingly little ground apart on policy. That means all it would take is some dissatisfaction to creep in for one individual - being passed over for some position perhaps. No one specific in mind of course. I think that displays a fundamental lack of understanding of both the dynamics and the specifics of the agreement. The main arguments in favour of the political co-operation agreement by it's proponents were to push the SNP in a greener direction where they wouldn't go if left to themselves. If there were to be a defection it would be far more likely to be somebody leaving because they feel there has been too much compromise with the SNP, not moving towards the SNP. I wouldn't entirely rule out a defection in the other direction, from the SNP, though To many on the outside it’s simply seen as a Yes alliance without any real difference beyond the odd bit of rhetoric. Considering the SNP were a minority anyway I don’t see how that pressure couldn’t have been applied from the opposition benches? |
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,735
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Post by Chris from Brum on Oct 13, 2021 11:48:22 GMT
I think that displays a fundamental lack of understanding of both the dynamics and the specifics of the agreement. The main arguments in favour of the political co-operation agreement by it's proponents were to push the SNP in a greener direction where they wouldn't go if left to themselves. If there were to be a defection it would be far more likely to be somebody leaving because they feel there has been too much compromise with the SNP, not moving towards the SNP. I wouldn't entirely rule out a defection in the other direction, from the SNP, though To many on the outside it’s simply seen as a Yes alliance without any real difference beyond the odd bit of rhetoric. Considering the SNP were a minority anyway I don’t see how that pressure couldn’t have been applied from the opposition benches? Aye, but then Patrick Harvie wouldn't have got the job of Minister for Environmentally Friendly Paper-clips. |
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,905
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Post by Tony Otim on Oct 13, 2021 17:11:36 GMT
I think that displays a fundamental lack of understanding of both the dynamics and the specifics of the agreement. The main arguments in favour of the political co-operation agreement by it's proponents were to push the SNP in a greener direction where they wouldn't go if left to themselves. If there were to be a defection it would be far more likely to be somebody leaving because they feel there has been too much compromise with the SNP, not moving towards the SNP. I wouldn't entirely rule out a defection in the other direction, from the SNP, though To many on the outside it’s simply seen as a Yes alliance without any real difference beyond the odd bit of rhetoric. Considering the SNP were a minority anyway I don’t see how that pressure couldn’t have been applied from the opposition benches? You know, the only mention of independence in the Green debate on the agreement was somebody observing 1h45 minutes in that we hadn't mentioned independence at all... As to the second point, with the SNP just 1 seat short of a majority, in reality they would probably pass what they wanted to anyway and the argument was that this would allow more influence to be exerted. It was acknowledged that it was a risk and a compromise and it was also acknowledged that we didn't want to be lib-demmed. Overall it was felt that it was worth the risk owing to the climate crisis. I actually voted against, but that was a marginal call. And yes, the job titles are utterly crap... |
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Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
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Post by Richard Allen on Oct 13, 2021 23:34:49 GMT
To many on the outside it’s simply seen as a Yes alliance without any real difference beyond the odd bit of rhetoric. Considering the SNP were a minority anyway I don’t see how that pressure couldn’t have been applied from the opposition benches? You know, the only mention of independence in the Green debate on the agreement was somebody observing 1h45 minutes in that we hadn't mentioned independence at all... As to the second point, with the SNP just 1 seat short of a majority, in reality they would probably pass what they wanted to anyway and the argument was that this would allow more influence to be exerted. It was acknowledged that it was a risk and a compromise and it was also acknowledged that we didn't want to be lib-demmed. Overall it was felt that it was worth the risk owing to the climate crisis. I actually voted against, but that was a marginal call. And yes, the job titles are utterly crap... Sod the climate crisis, if you are want to pretend to be a serious party what other choice did you have? What better scenario for you joining a government is likely to present itself? |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 14, 2021 9:10:19 GMT
And yes, the job titles are utterly crap... Which is a pity because the stuff in Slater's brief could be quite meaty and, potentially, could make some big differences. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 14, 2021 9:48:39 GMT
To many on the outside it’s simply seen as a Yes alliance without any real difference beyond the odd bit of rhetoric. Considering the SNP were a minority anyway I don’t see how that pressure couldn’t have been applied from the opposition benches? You know, the only mention of independence in the Green debate on the agreement was somebody observing 1h45 minutes in that we hadn't mentioned independence at all... As to the second point, with the SNP just 1 seat short of a majority, in reality they would probably pass what they wanted to anyway and the argument was that this would allow more influence to be exerted. It was acknowledged that it was a risk and a compromise and it was also acknowledged that we didn't want to be lib-demmed. Overall it was felt that it was worth the risk owing to the climate crisis. I actually voted against, but that was a marginal call. And yes, the job titles are utterly crap... The problem with that argument is that it has been shown to be a nonsense already. Take the vaccine ID cards, the SNP would've been defeated had you, the Greens, stuck to your purported principles. Instead, you spectacularly surrendered. This is despite the fact that I'm sure you can all still see how discriminatory, authoritarian and bad for already hammered businesses they are. |
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Post by islington on Oct 14, 2021 10:00:14 GMT
This is about the remote past rather than the distant future, but when in the early 1950s the once very leftish Labour MP Sir Hartley Shawcross was displaying increasingly Toryish tendencies he was nicknamed Sir Shortly Floorcross, which as political jokes go is definitely well above average.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 14, 2021 10:05:54 GMT
This is about the remote past rather than the distant future, but when in the early 1950s the once very leftish Labour MP Sir Hartley Shawcross was displaying increasingly Toryish tendencies he was nicknamed Sir Shortly Floorcross, which as political jokes go is definitely well above average. Although in terms of this thread, it was mentioned as recently as two days ago.. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 14, 2021 10:06:58 GMT
Which I referenced two days ago - see fourth post on this page. The point though is that Shawcross didn't floorcross.
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Post by islington on Oct 14, 2021 10:11:00 GMT
Which I referenced two days ago - see fourth post on this page. The point though is that Shawcross didn't floorcross. I've been away at a conference for a couple of days and haven't kept up.
Sorry for troubling everyone. |
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Post by islington on Oct 14, 2021 10:29:35 GMT
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Oct 14, 2021 10:50:17 GMT
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stb12
Top Poster
Posts: 8,384
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Post by stb12 on Oct 15, 2021 8:15:30 GMT
I noticed when looking defections up after this thread that a former Labour MP for Tottenham of all places ended up crossing the floor to the Tories and actually stood for re-election under the new colours: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Grahame_BrownAs expected Labour still win the seat comfortably as they always have done. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Oct 15, 2021 10:19:51 GMT
He killed himself (cut his own throat), having been depressed by domestic difficulties and also from selling his home for £107,000 when the new owner managed to sell it on for £217,000.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 15, 2021 16:25:10 GMT
He killed himself (cut his own throat), having been depressed by domestic difficulties and also from selling his home for £107,000 when the new owner managed to sell it on for £217,000. Given that he died in 1972, his house must have been substantial for that price. |
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Post by hiberno on Oct 16, 2021 11:37:12 GMT
Kate Hoey to DUP shurely, or maybe TUV?  The TUV would probably be too moderate for her Unionist beliefs |
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Post by andrew111 on Oct 17, 2021 17:17:01 GMT
Though many left leaning LibDems stuck around when Clegg was doing pretty much as described above..... I didn't |
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