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Post by yellowperil on Mar 27, 2021 13:23:14 GMT
Far be it for me to complain about dodgy barcharts, but really.... Aside from choosing a non-zero base on the y-axis, what is there remotely to complain about? And a non-zero base is appropriate in this context. 1. I am of the view that a non-zero base is always suspect and I think "appropriate in the context " is always a dodgy argument. 2. There is also a bit of an argument to make about strength of armed forces purely in terms of manpower numbers. I say all that, which might suggest I am on the side of the Tories in this debate. I am not, but I see a shallow argument when I see one. |
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Post by matureleft on Mar 27, 2021 13:48:05 GMT
Wow. Some prickly reactions here. This is an election, not an academic debate and the good people of Hartlepool are electing a politician not a prelate. The chart is accurate. The absence of a zero base is clear. The message is a fair one, that the Tory party, in spite of flag waving. hasn't always been a friend of our armed forces, at least in terms of the personnel employed (and that is certainly only one measure, but a significant one). It doesn't try to suggest that Labour would have done much differently in that period.
I would hazard a guess that the Labour strategy on this is actually defensive - to aim at neutralising some of the traditional Tory advantage on defence matters. Any (rational) election strategy is a combination of positive campaigning on strengths and careful management of weaknesses (whether those weaknesses are objectively fair or not).
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Post by Ron Swanson on Mar 27, 2021 17:13:32 GMT
Wow. Some prickly reactions here. This is an election, not an academic debate and the good people of Hartlepool are electing a politician not a prelate. The chart is accurate. The absence of a zero base is clear. The message is a fair one, that the Tory party, in spite of flag waving. hasn't always been a friend of our armed forces, at least in terms of the personnel employed (and that is certainly only one measure, but a significant one). It doesn't try to suggest that Labour would have done much differently in that period. I would hazard a guess that the Labour strategy on this is actually defensive - to aim at neutralising some of the traditional Tory advantage on defence matters. Any (rational) election strategy is a combination of positive campaigning on strengths and careful management of weaknesses (whether those weaknesses are objectively fair or not). Indeed. Focusing on one’s strengths and trying to gain parity in weak areas ought to be part of any campaign. You either swim between your flags or you drown at the wrong end of the beach. |
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Post by agbutler on Mar 28, 2021 20:07:47 GMT
Thelma Walker will be the NIP candidate here. I make that three former MPs running.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 28, 2021 20:16:51 GMT
Does somebody want to rethink their party's acronym?!
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bsjmcr
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Post by bsjmcr on Mar 28, 2021 20:27:48 GMT
Does somebody want to rethink their party's acronym?! It’s not as bad as REFUK. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 28, 2021 20:35:20 GMT
Does somebody want to rethink their party's acronym?! It’s not as bad as REFUK. Which party is that an acronym for? |
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bsjmcr
Non-Aligned
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Post by bsjmcr on Mar 28, 2021 20:41:32 GMT
It’s not as bad as REFUK. Which party is that an acronym for? it’s Britain Elects’ acronym abbreviation for Reform UK  No idea if it’s the ‘official’ one or not (Maybe REF?) It’s a similar vain to CHUK for Change UK I guess. |
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on Mar 28, 2021 20:43:25 GMT
Which party is that an acronym for? it’s Britain Elects’ acronym for Reform UK No idea if it’s the ‘official’ one or not (Maybe REF?) It’s a similar vain to CHUK for Change UK I guess. If we're onto five-letter abbreviations, why isn't the Green Party GREEN? |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 28, 2021 20:48:28 GMT
Which party is that an acronym for? it’s Britain Elects’ acronym for Reform UK No idea if it’s the ‘official’ one or not (Maybe REF?) It’s a similar vain to CHUK for Change UK I guess. The only acronym on that list is UKIP. Obviously parties can't choose how random people on Twitter abbreviate their names. An actual acronym of the party name would be RPUK. That for Change UK would be CUK which actually sounds worse (and somehow more appropriate) than the one you suggest |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 28, 2021 21:04:05 GMT
Thelma Walker will be the NIP candidate here. I make that three former MPs running. See my comments above concerning Hilton Dawson and the NEP - replace Lancashire with West Yorkshire, Newbiggin-by-the Sea with Marple and the accents are even more different. Lost deposit. (I get that she used to live and work in Stockton-on-Tees, but it was a long time ago ) |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Mar 28, 2021 21:09:06 GMT
Thelma Walker will be the NIP candidate here. I make that three former MPs running. See my comments above concerning Hilton Dawson and the NEP - replace Lancashire with West Yorkshire, Newbiggin-by-the Sea with Marple and the accents are even more different. Lost deposit. (I get that she used to live and work in Stockton-on-Tees, but it was a long time ago ) I wonder what edgbaston makes of this. He was quite enthusiastic about her as I recall when she was briefly his MP. I knew she was on the left but her Twitter feed (and this episode) reveal her to be a complete loon. Was she always this unhinged? |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 28, 2021 21:17:57 GMT
Thelma Walker will be the NIP candidate here. I make that three former MPs running. See my comments above concerning Hilton Dawson and the NEP - replace Lancashire with West Yorkshire, Newbiggin-by-the Sea with Marple and the accents are even more different. Lost deposit. (I get that she used to live and work in Stockton-on-Tees, but it was a long time ago ) Marple? Do you mean Marsden? I wouldn't imagine she will win, or even get that many votes, but if it stops Labour winning, job done. |
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 28, 2021 21:30:10 GMT
That for Change UK would be CUK which actually sounds worse (and somehow more appropriate) than the one you suggest I can't imagine why people were drawn towards an abbreviation that made it natural to call them the Chukas... |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,732
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 28, 2021 21:30:18 GMT
See my comments above concerning Hilton Dawson and the NEP - replace Lancashire with West Yorkshire, Newbiggin-by-the Sea with Marple and the accents are even more different. Lost deposit. (I get that she used to live and work in Stockton-on-Tees, but it was a long time ago ) Marple? Do you mean Marsden? I wouldn't imagine she will win, or even get that many votes, but if it stops Labour winning, job done. Nope, she is from Marple. |
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Post by hullenedge on Mar 28, 2021 21:31:18 GMT
See my comments above concerning Hilton Dawson and the NEP - replace Lancashire with West Yorkshire, Newbiggin-by-the Sea with Marple and the accents are even more different. Lost deposit. (I get that she used to live and work in Stockton-on-Tees, but it was a long time ago ) I wonder what edgbaston makes of this. He was quite enthusiastic about her as I recall when she was briefly his MP. I knew she was on the left but her Twitter feed (and this episode) reveal her to be a complete loon. Was she always this unhinged? Her performance as an MP can be judged by our stunning regain in a constituency that is not trending towards us not a Leave redoubt. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 28, 2021 21:32:27 GMT
Marple? Do you mean Marsden? I wouldn't imagine she will win, or even get that many votes, but if it stops Labour winning, job done. Nope, she is from Marple. She doesn't live there now. |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,732
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 28, 2021 21:33:44 GMT
Nope, she is from Marple. She doesn't live there now. I was referring to accents, check my original post. |
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 28, 2021 21:36:59 GMT
She doesn't live there now. I was referring to accents, check my original post. I've heard of parochial, but surely noone votes for a candidate because of their accent? Hartlepool voters happily voted for a Londoner and from Hampstead at that! |
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,732
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 28, 2021 21:39:37 GMT
I was referring to accents, check my original post. I've heard of parochial, but surely noone votes for a candidate because of their accent? Hartlepool voters happily voted for a Londoner and from Hampstead at that! Mike, you are missing the point, it was a connecting reference to my original point about Hilton Dawson, and a jokey part of it, to be honest. |
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