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Post by islington on Jan 20, 2023 10:40:37 GMT
This isn't a serious suggestion, and it would be too late anyway, but one must do something to fill the idle days of awaiting the BCE's final scheme and I fell to wondering whether it was possible to get rid of the Wandsworth ward split without throwing out the BCE's entire south London scheme.
I came up with this. The nine seats involved cover an area identical to nine seats in the BCE's revised plan, so it has no knock-on consequences elsewhere. Everything is contiguous and legal, and although there is a fair bit of boundary-crossing, no seat extends into more than two boroughs. I reckon eight of these seats work quite well, and I'm actually rather pleased with this version of Clapham. The fly in the ointment is a long thin Brixton seat that looks like a rocket leaving the launch pad.
I do reiterate that I'm sold on the Wandsworth ward split so I wouldn't have submitted this even if I'd thought of it in time.
Wimbledon & Coombe - 71641 Tooting - 70916
Wandsworth & Putney - 76668 Battersea & Vauxhall - 74297 Clapham - 75309 Brixton - 76106 Dulwich & West Norwood - 72767 Camberwell & Peckham - 70243
Lewisham West & Nunhead - 70592
 I really like that version of Clapham - Clapham Junction isn't part of what traditionally would be called "Clapham", but the two are conflated especially by younger people. It's also an area where the borough boundary isn't particularly strong on the ground, except for the part through the Common (but even there you could argue it's a focal point for communities either side rather than a hard barrier). I also find the idea of Vauxhall and Battersea intriguing - Nine Elms is very much an extension of the former, being dominated by high rise and redevelopments by the river. But the rest of Battersea feels rather more separate, so I don't think I like the idea yet. I say yet, because given a decade or two community ties might well shift to bring the two closer together. I see what you mean.
You could rectify it by, compared with the plan above, removing the two wards that comprise Battersea proper (St Mary's Park and Latchmere), and also Stockwell, and adding in Larkhall and the two Clapham wards to create a Vauxhall & Clapham seat that is inelegantly shaped but maybe more homogeneous in social terms. Brixton would then gain Stockwell and lose Thornton, which is probably an improvement, with everything else forming a revised Battersea seat that is rather poorly defined on its southern flank.
On balance, though, if you're determined to avoid a ward split I'd prefer my plan as mapped.
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 8:56:13 GMT
The Enfield constituencies don't really make sense on the ground and are a borderline Labour gerrymander, really hope they fix it without changing the rest of the constituencies west of the River Lee, as the revised plans for Barnet were a major upgrade and I'm personally fond of the Hampstead & Highgate proposal.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 24, 2023 9:08:24 GMT
The Enfield constituencies don't really make sense on the ground and are a borderline Labour gerrymander, really hope they fix it without changing the rest of the constituencies west of the River Lee, as the revised plans for Barnet were a major upgrade and I'm personally fond of the Hampstead & Highgate proposal. Easily fixed without disturbing the revised plans in Barnet, Hampstead etc. The problem is the BC seem obsessed with keeping Tottenham more or less in one piece (but even then add WHL to the gerrymandered Southgate seat)  |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 9:14:17 GMT
The Enfield constituencies don't really make sense on the ground and are a borderline Labour gerrymander, really hope they fix it without changing the rest of the constituencies west of the River Lee, as the revised plans for Barnet were a major upgrade and I'm personally fond of the Hampstead & Highgate proposal. Easily fixed without disturbing the revised plans in Barnet, Hampstead etc. The problem is the BC seem obsessed with keeping Tottenham more or less in one piece (but even then add WHL to the gerrymandered Southgate seat) I'm not sure you need to split Tottenham or Hornsey and Friern Barnet. I also think that the Greenbelt should be kept together. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Feb 24, 2023 9:19:10 GMT
Easily fixed without disturbing the revised plans in Barnet, Hampstead etc. The problem is the BC seem obsessed with keeping Tottenham more or less in one piece (but even then add WHL to the gerrymandered Southgate seat) I'm not sure you need to split Tottenham or Hornsey and Friern Barnet. I also think that the Greenbelt should be kept together. What are you suggesting then? |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 9:26:32 GMT
I'm not sure you need to split Tottenham or Hornsey and Friern Barnet. I also think that the Greenbelt should be kept together. What are you suggesting then? I know that putting Brimsdown and Enfield Lock in Edmonton is Pretty controversial, but i believe it's worth it. (Carterhatch should be split in half but i dont know how)  |
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Post by islington on Feb 24, 2023 10:55:38 GMT
What are you suggesting then? I know that putting Brimsdown and Enfield Lock in Edmonton is Pretty controversial, but i believe it's worth it. (Carterhatch should be split in half but i dont know how) Frankly the BCE's revised scheme is preferable to either of the alternatives suggested this morning. Admittedly the Southgate & WG seat sprawls a bit but it's all held together by the Piccadilly line and it has some history behind it because Southgate and WG were united in a seat 1918-1950. It's certainly better than lumping in Enfield Lock with Edmonton. And the BCE's preference for not carving Tottenham in half is an eminently reasonable approach, hardly an "obsession". |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 24, 2023 11:14:14 GMT
I know that putting Brimsdown and Enfield Lock in Edmonton is Pretty controversial, but i believe it's worth it. (Carterhatch should be split in half but i dont know how) Frankly the BCE's revised scheme is preferable to either of the alternatives suggested this morning. Admittedly the Southgate & WG seat sprawls a bit but it's all held together by the Piccadilly line and it has some history behind it because Southgate and WG were united in a seat 1918-1950. It's certainly better than lumping in Enfield Lock with Edmonton. And the BCE's preference for not carving Tottenham in half is an eminently reasonable approach, hardly an "obsession". It's just that the deprivation of Edmonton has spread northward throughout the last 3 decades to the point where everything in Enfield to the east of A10 is just plain grim compared to the rest of the Borough. |
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Post by islington on Feb 24, 2023 17:31:00 GMT
I know that putting Brimsdown and Enfield Lock in Edmonton is Pretty controversial, but i believe it's worth it. (Carterhatch should be split in half but i dont know how) Frankly the BCE's revised scheme is preferable to either of the alternatives suggested this morning. Admittedly the Southgate & WG seat sprawls a bit but it's all held together by the Piccadilly line and it has some history behind it because Southgate and WG were united in a seat 1918-1950. It's certainly better than lumping in Enfield Lock with Edmonton. And the BCE's preference for not carving Tottenham in half is an eminently reasonable approach, hardly an "obsession". And while I'm having fun uploading old boundaries, here's Wood Green as it existed 1918 to 1950, including Southgate. (Note also the curious tendril-like salient running along World's End Lane, just to show that Co Durham didn't have a monopoly of this sort of thing.)  roll 3 |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Feb 25, 2023 11:54:47 GMT
Frankly the BCE's revised scheme is preferable to either of the alternatives suggested this morning. Admittedly the Southgate & WG seat sprawls a bit but it's all held together by the Piccadilly line and it has some history behind it because Southgate and WG were united in a seat 1918-1950. It's certainly better than lumping in Enfield Lock with Edmonton. And the BCE's preference for not carving Tottenham in half is an eminently reasonable approach, hardly an "obsession". It's just that the deprivation of Edmonton has spread northward throughout the last 3 decades to the point where everything in Enfield to the east of A10 is just plain grim compared to the rest of the Borough. Or to put it another way, you don't like the arrangement of Enfield constituencies because you think they're a borderline Labour gerrymander, and want them instead to be a Conservative gerrymander. |
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Post by rcronald on Feb 25, 2023 12:20:26 GMT
It's just that the deprivation of Edmonton has spread northward throughout the last 3 decades to the point where everything in Enfield to the east of A10 is just plain grim compared to the rest of the Borough. Or to put it another way, you don't like the arrangement of Enfield constituencies because you think they're a borderline Labour gerrymander, and want them instead to be a Conservative gerrymander. not really, I think Labour won all 3 in 2019 anyway. A gerrymander would have Southgate in Enfield North and take Haselbury out of Edmonton. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 28, 2023 10:35:52 GMT
Changes in final review from revised proposals include a complex redrawing of boundaries in Merton, Kingston and Richmond which deserves a separate look, but which makes a lot more sense than the rubbish in the revised proposals.
Exchange of wards between 'Edmonton' and 'Enfield North' - Ponders End moves from Edmonton to Enfield North, Grange Park moves the other way. 'Edmonton' is renamed 'Edmonton and Winchmore Hill'.
Exchange of wards between 'Hampstead and Highgate' and 'Holborn and St Pancras' - Gospel Oak moves from Hampstead and Highgate to Holborn and St Pancras; Kentish Town North and part of Primrose Hill move the other way.
Exchange of wards between 'Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner' and 'Uxbridge and South Ruislip' - Ruislip Manor moves from Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner to Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Harefield Village moves the other way.
'Croydon West and South Norwood' is renamed 'Croydon West'.
'Islington South' is renamed 'Islington South and Finsbury'.
'Lewisham North and Deptford' is renamed 'Lewisham North'.
'Queen's Park and Little Venice' is renamed 'Queen's Park and Maida Vale'.
'Streatham and Norbury' is renamed 'Streatham and Croydon North'.
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iain
Lib Dem
Posts: 11,453 
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Post by iain on Jun 28, 2023 10:39:48 GMT
I think Kingston / Merton has just reverted to the original proposals?
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jun 28, 2023 10:47:13 GMT
I think Kingston / Merton has just reverted to the original proposals? Yes - save for the fact that Longthornton is no longer needed for Streatham and Croydon North. Puts Mitcham and Morden perilously close to the maximum (only 185 off) with 76,877. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 28, 2023 10:58:06 GMT
Changes in final review from revised proposals include a complex redrawing of boundaries in Merton, Kingston and Richmond which deserves a separate look, but which makes a lot more sense than the rubbish in the revised proposals. Exchange of wards between 'Edmonton' and 'Enfield North' - Ponders End moves from Edmonton to Enfield North, Grange Park moves the other way. 'Edmonton' is renamed 'Edmonton and Winchmore Hill'. Exchange of wards between 'Hampstead and Highgate' and 'Holborn and St Pancras' - Gospel Oak moves from Hampstead and Highgate to Holborn and St Pancras; Kentish Town North and part of Primrose Hill move the other way. Exchange of wards between 'Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner' and 'Uxbridge and South Ruislip' - Ruislip Manor moves from Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner to Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Harefield Village moves the other way. 'Croydon West and South Norwood' is renamed 'Croydon West'. 'Islington South' is renamed 'Islington South and Finsbury'. 'Lewisham North and Deptford' is renamed 'Lewisham North'. 'Queen's Park and Little Venice' is renamed 'Queen's Park and Maida Vale'. 'Streatham and Norbury' is renamed 'Streatham and Croydon North'. It;'s the other way around. Gospel Oak moves from H&SPto H&H and Kentish Town North moves the other way |
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Post by greatkingrat on Jun 28, 2023 11:11:22 GMT
Changes in final review from revised proposals include a complex redrawing of boundaries in Merton, Kingston and Richmond which deserves a separate look, but which makes a lot more sense than the rubbish in the revised proposals. Exchange of wards between 'Edmonton' and 'Enfield North' - Ponders End moves from Edmonton to Enfield North, Grange Park moves the other way. 'Edmonton' is renamed 'Edmonton and Winchmore Hill'. Exchange of wards between 'Hampstead and Highgate' and 'Holborn and St Pancras' - Gospel Oak moves from Hampstead and Highgate to Holborn and St Pancras; Kentish Town North and part of Primrose Hill move the other way. Exchange of wards between 'Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner' and 'Uxbridge and South Ruislip' - Ruislip Manor moves from Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner to Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Harefield Village moves the other way. 'Croydon West and South Norwood' is renamed 'Croydon West'. 'Islington South' is renamed 'Islington South and Finsbury'. 'Lewisham North and Deptford' is renamed 'Lewisham North'. 'Queen's Park and Little Venice' is renamed 'Queen's Park and Maida Vale'. 'Streatham and Norbury' is renamed 'Streatham and Croydon North'. Also Lambeth Central -> Clapham and Brixton Hill Vauxhall -> Vauxhall and Camberwell Green Wembley -> Brent West Willesden -> Brent East |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jun 28, 2023 11:12:14 GMT
Changes in final review from revised proposals include a complex redrawing of boundaries in Merton, Kingston and Richmond which deserves a separate look, but which makes a lot more sense than the rubbish in the revised proposals. Exchange of wards between 'Edmonton' and 'Enfield North' - Ponders End moves from Edmonton to Enfield North, Grange Park moves the other way. 'Edmonton' is renamed 'Edmonton and Winchmore Hill'. Exchange of wards between 'Hampstead and Highgate' and 'Holborn and St Pancras' - Gospel Oak moves from Hampstead and Highgate to Holborn and St Pancras; Kentish Town North and part of Primrose Hill move the other way. Exchange of wards between 'Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner' and 'Uxbridge and South Ruislip' - Ruislip Manor moves from Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner to Uxbridge and South Ruislip, Harefield Village moves the other way. 'Croydon West and South Norwood' is renamed 'Croydon West'. 'Islington South' is renamed 'Islington South and Finsbury'. 'Lewisham North and Deptford' is renamed 'Lewisham North'. 'Queen's Park and Little Venice' is renamed 'Queen's Park and Maida Vale'. 'Streatham and Norbury' is renamed 'Streatham and Croydon North'. Also Lambeth Central -> Clapham and Brixton Hill Vauxhall -> Vauxhall and Camberwell Green Wembley -> Brent West
Willesden -> Brent EastFFS  |
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Post by johnloony on Jun 28, 2023 18:06:18 GMT
Also Lambeth Central -> Clapham and Brixton Hill Vauxhall -> Vauxhall and Camberwell Green Wembley -> Brent West
Willesden -> Brent EastFFS Those last two are good. Better to use proper sensible borough names rather than antiquated bumpkin names which only existed thousands of years ago. |
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Post by bjornhattan on Jun 28, 2023 22:18:31 GMT
FFS Those last two are good. Better to use proper sensible borough names rather than antiquated bumpkin names which only existed thousands of years ago. Last month I had reason to attend a football match at Brent West Stadium; on my way back to where I was staying I changed at Brent East Junction. |
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Post by evergreenadam on Jun 28, 2023 22:51:19 GMT
The Harefield and Ruislip Manor ward swap would presumably make Labour’s job harder in Uxbridge?
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