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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Nov 18, 2024 23:11:09 GMT
What is more incomprehensible is just how much the 2 different halves of the USA not only hate each other, but also seem to be doing all they can to avoid each other. Fortunately I don't think we are close to that. Yet. My online acquaintance in Nevada, who until now has seemed as sane and level headed as any Manchester United fan can be, is now changing his name to disassociate from his similarly named father purely because Senior voted for Trump. I had a video suggested to me by YouTube earlier this evening of a Black couple (by their accents from the South) who are getting divorced because (strangely) he voted Harris which is unforgivable to the wife, and to cap it off teenage eldest daughter has filed a lawsuit alleging emotional abuse by her mother because of the grief she’s getting in High School. Brexit threatened to do the same here. I'm very concerned that a death penalty referendum would shatter family bonds completely. |
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Khunanup
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Post by Khunanup on Nov 18, 2024 23:12:34 GMT
Given the state of American food quality, healthcare, and gun control, I'd take British caution over their "devil may care" any day. We're European and should remember that. To a point. We have more in common with Americans than we do with the Bulgarians, or Belarussians, or Serbs, or Lithuanians. Yes, you can point to us having close links with Western Europe, Scandinavia, Austria and maybe the Poles and Czechs, but after than you're pushing it. Really? Been to any of those countries recently and had a chat to the locals. The base instincts of most Europeans generally seem to have more in common with us rather than the frankly weird frontier state culture which still persists on the States. Probably the European country that has a culture most similar to the States is Russia. Frontier state, built on myth, completely artificial and a relaxed attitude to violence. Language really does create a false sense of closeness to the States. |
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Jack
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Post by Jack on Nov 18, 2024 23:30:56 GMT
My online acquaintance in Nevada, who until now has seemed as sane and level headed as any Manchester United fan can be, is now changing his name to disassociate from his similarly named father purely because Senior voted for Trump. I had a video suggested to me by YouTube earlier this evening of a Black couple (by their accents from the South) who are getting divorced because (strangely) he voted Harris which is unforgivable to the wife, and to cap it off teenage eldest daughter has filed a lawsuit alleging emotional abuse by her mother because of the grief she’s getting in High School. Brexit threatened to do the same here. I'm very concerned that a death penalty referendum would shatter family bonds completely. These kind of things only threaten weirdos who base their entire personality around who and what they support politically. Social media has made it worse because having the "correct" opinions on everything is how you get attention and fit in. |
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Post by observer on Nov 18, 2024 23:31:56 GMT
To a point. We have more in common with Americans than we do with the Bulgarians, or Belarussians, or Serbs, or Lithuanians. Yes, you can point to us having close links with Western Europe, Scandinavia, Austria and maybe the Poles and Czechs, but after than you're pushing it. Really? Been to any of those countries recently and had a chat to the locals. The base instincts of most Europeans generally seem to have more in common with us rather than the frankly weird frontier state culture which still persists on the States. Probably the European country that has a culture most similar to the States is Russia. Frontier state, built on myth, completely artificial and a relaxed attitude to violence. Language really does create a false sense of closeness to the States. It's more than language, although that is important. They are our cousins even though they rebelled against us. Rightly. They revere Magna Carta. They have an original Magna Carta on permanent display. Their constitution is based on it. And the Bill of Rights. They are a common law country. They have habeus corpus and the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. They believe in trial before a jury of their peers to prevent state abuse of the citizenry. These are our own basic beliefs. They are inspirational in their support for these beliefs. Most European countries do not have these traditions. |
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Post by timmullen on Nov 19, 2024 0:13:03 GMT
Brexit threatened to do the same here. I'm very concerned that a death penalty referendum would shatter family bonds completely. These kind of things only threaten weirdos who base their entire personality around who and what they support politically. Social media has made it worse because having the "correct" opinions on everything is how you get attention and fit in. The odd thing about my Nevada guy is he was a literal last minute Harris voter having toyed with None of these Candidates because he was concerned she was too liberal, did vote NotC in the Senate contest and for his Republican House candidate, so it’s not that he’s a “Democrat until I die” person. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2024 6:36:30 GMT
To a point. We have more in common with Americans than we do with the Bulgarians, or Belarussians, or Serbs, or Lithuanians. Yes, you can point to us having close links with Western Europe, Scandinavia, Austria and maybe the Poles and Czechs, but after than you're pushing it. Really? Been to any of those countries recently and had a chat to the locals. The base instincts of most Europeans generally seem to have more in common with us rather than the frankly weird frontier state culture which still persists on the States. Probably the European country that has a culture most similar to the States is Russia. Frontier state, built on myth, completely artificial and a relaxed attitude to violence. Language really does create a false sense of closeness to the States. There's elements of the individualist American culture that come from Germanic Europe - obviously that's the only other major feed in to the non Hispanic white population of middle America. Obviously the war changed Germany and to a lesser extent Austria irrevocably but you can still see it in the Swiss. I honestly don't know how you could sincerely come to the conclusion that Romance speaking countries are closer to us than is the U.S. Spain , France and Italy really have nothing in common with us whatsoever. We Germanics are cold, practical and to the point. They are warm, communalist and don't care about doing things just so. We are a handshake and they that weird kiss thing. Even going to Geneva on business that seemed to be expected. Admittedly I'm probably a bit on the spectrum like many on here, but I'm always on edge in France or Romandie that some behaviour is going to happen that I feel uncomfortable with. Or that they are incredulous you don't speak their language (less of an issue in Romandie). Whereas we've grown up with American culture and ways of communicating. I've never felt that unease. You know what to expect at all times. |
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Post by doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ on Nov 19, 2024 6:37:55 GMT
Really? Been to any of those countries recently and had a chat to the locals. The base instincts of most Europeans generally seem to have more in common with us rather than the frankly weird frontier state culture which still persists on the States. Probably the European country that has a culture most similar to the States is Russia. Frontier state, built on myth, completely artificial and a relaxed attitude to violence. Language really does create a false sense of closeness to the States. It's more than language, although that is important. They are our cousins even though they rebelled against us. Rightly. They revere Magna Carta. They have an original Magna Carta on permanent display. Their constitution is based on it. And the Bill of Rights. They are a common law country. They have habeus corpus and the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. They believe in trial before a jury of their peers to prevent state abuse of the citizenry. These are our own basic beliefs. They are inspirational in their support for these beliefs. Most European countries do not have these traditions. The US allows its President to hand pick judges who can (and have) let them off the most serious court cases. That's something we should rightly ridicule. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2024 6:43:29 GMT
It's more than language, although that is important. They are our cousins even though they rebelled against us. Rightly. They revere Magna Carta. They have an original Magna Carta on permanent display. Their constitution is based on it. And the Bill of Rights. They are a common law country. They have habeus corpus and the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. They believe in trial before a jury of their peers to prevent state abuse of the citizenry. These are our own basic beliefs. They are inspirational in their support for these beliefs. Most European countries do not have these traditions. The US allows its President to hand pick judges who can (and have) let them off the most serious court cases. That's something we should rightly ridicule. Judges are elected here. The idea of not voting on such a senior public official would be totally alien to the Swiss. Most of them would "rightly ridicule" the concept of unelected power that is literally a law unto itself. |
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Nov 19, 2024 10:37:55 GMT
What is more incomprehensible is just how much the 2 different halves of the USA not only hate each other, but also seem to be doing all they can to avoid each other. Fortunately I don't think we are close to that. Yet. My online acquaintance in Nevada, who until now has seemed as sane and level headed as any Manchester United fan can be, is now changing his name to disassociate from his similarly named father purely because Senior voted for Trump. I had a video suggested to me by YouTube earlier this evening of a Black couple (by their accents from the South) who are getting divorced because (strangely) he voted Harris which is unforgivable to the wife, and to cap it off teenage eldest daughter has filed a lawsuit alleging emotional abuse by her mother because of the grief she’s getting in High School. That is most interesting Tim and do please keep up any such anecdotes from ordinary people in the states. I do find that quite extraordinary. To have become the focus of family splits and actual divorce! It is amazing how that could happen in a human head, but it does put in a better perspective the Brexit responses and the Palestinian responses of some people in the UK. I find it near to impossible to conceive feeling that type of reaction to anything really. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2024 10:47:39 GMT
I find it very odd that someone voting for a republican congressman would have opinions that strong on Trump (and vice versa).
Happily I come from a family where none of us would be even occasional Labour voters - but my dad is prone to voting lib dem on occasion. Nobody else can understand it (sister and mother are reform leaners, my brother and I are on the liberal right and poor matches for all UK parties), but its not a topic of family disunity. I can't imagine it would be if anyone did vote labour. Although it would be commented on.
People who ostracize family members in either direction need to visit a shrink.
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Post by johnloony on Nov 19, 2024 11:45:23 GMT
I'd agree. Divided by a common language has never appeared to be more true, although lumping 'America' together under one banner is as lazy as lumping 'Europe' together (& I plead guilty m'lud) What is more incomprehensible is just how much the 2 different halves of the USA not only hate each other, but also seem to be doing all they can to avoid each other. Fortunately I don't think we are close to that. Yet. THis very much reminds me of something I saw about a few weeks ago and I almost certainly wont be able to find it now..but it encapsulates this point perfectly The writer (clearly a MAGA but one who was anticipating the possibility of a narrow Harris win) displayed a map of North America and he put on a revised boundary which added to Canada the US States of Washington, Oregon, California, Minnesota, Illinois, New York, NJ, Maryland, Virginia, Delaware and all the New England states. He also added Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania to this Greater Canada (hence my assumption that he was thinking Trump may lose) He then said "What's not to like?" *smile emoji* Some of the replies were hilarious but the best was one that said: USA = currently No1 economy in the world Greater Canada would be - probably- be No2 economy in the world (If it couldnt outdo China following the loss of states like Texas and Florida) Rump USA = 20th economy in the world and in terminal decline! Be careful what you wish for! I remember seeing that map (or a variation of the same idea), but what makes you think it was drawn by a MAGA person? The “what’s not to like” comment would be stating that the enlarged Canada / California / New England was the bit to like. |
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Post by manchesterman on Nov 19, 2024 11:52:09 GMT
from other comments made in reply to his post
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Post by sanders on Nov 19, 2024 12:40:50 GMT
Come friendly bombs and fall on Appalachia. It's not fit for Democrats now.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 19, 2024 12:54:40 GMT
It's more than language, although that is important. They are our cousins even though they rebelled against us. Rightly. They revere Magna Carta. They have an original Magna Carta on permanent display. Their constitution is based on it. And the Bill of Rights. They are a common law country. They have habeus corpus and the assumption of innocence until proven guilty. They believe in trial before a jury of their peers to prevent state abuse of the citizenry. These are our own basic beliefs. They are inspirational in their support for these beliefs. Most European countries do not have these traditions. The US allows its President to hand pick judges who can (and have) let them off the most serious court cases. That's something we should rightly ridicule. We should be rather grateful in Britain that we neither follow this, nor retain the tradition of parliamentary immunity/right to be tried by your fellow legislators/the judiciary having to seek the legislature's permission before trying one of its members for a crime. (When was the last time we could do that, I wonder? Paging Davıd Boothroyd. Early 20th century?) |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 19, 2024 13:01:05 GMT
Really? Been to any of those countries recently and had a chat to the locals. The base instincts of most Europeans generally seem to have more in common with us rather than the frankly weird frontier state culture which still persists on the States. Probably the European country that has a culture most similar to the States is Russia. Frontier state, built on myth, completely artificial and a relaxed attitude to violence. Language really does create a false sense of closeness to the States. There's elements of the individualist American culture that come from Germanic Europe - obviously that's the only other major feed in to the non Hispanic white population of middle America. Obviously the war changed Germany and to a lesser extent Austria irrevocably but you can still see it in the Swiss. I honestly don't know how you could sincerely come to the conclusion that Romance speaking countries are closer to us than is the U.S. Spain , France and Italy really have nothing in common with us whatsoever. We Germanics are cold, practical and to the point. They are warm, communalist and don't care about doing things just so. We are a handshake and they that weird kiss thing. Even going to Geneva on business that seemed to be expected. Admittedly I'm probably a bit on the spectrum like many on here, but I'm always on edge in France or Romandie that some behaviour is going to happen that I feel uncomfortable with. Or that they are incredulous you don't speak their language (less of an issue in Romandie). Whereas we've grown up with American culture and ways of communicating. I've never felt that unease. You know what to expect at all times. The degree to which America resembles Germany, and American manners resemble German manners, is quite astounding. It is said sometimes that the revolution that shaped America was not just its own but the 1848 revolutions which sent tens of thousands of German liberals to the States, who quickly became political active and socially influential. The similarities and parallels, especially culturally, are often very striking. Which is probably also why Germany is the most enthusiastic adopter of American culture in Europe (including the UK). |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 19, 2024 13:04:02 GMT
Given the state of American food quality, healthcare, and gun control, I'd take British caution over their "devil may care" any day. We're European and should remember that. I suspect you'd be unimpressed with all three of these if you came to Germany. |
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aargauer
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Post by aargauer on Nov 19, 2024 13:07:03 GMT
Given the state of American food quality, healthcare, and gun control, I'd take British caution over their "devil may care" any day. We're European and should remember that. I suspect you'd be unimpressed with all three of these if you came to Germany. Anyone who thinks American food is bad is off their trolley. They have the best food in the western world. Followed by us. Other Europeans haven't yet twigged their native food sucks. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 19, 2024 13:09:05 GMT
To a point. We have more in common with Americans than we do with the Bulgarians, or Belarussians, or Serbs, or Lithuanians. Yes, you can point to us having close links with Western Europe, Scandinavia, Austria and maybe the Poles and Czechs, but after than you're pushing it. Language really does create a false sense of closeness to the States. The flipside of this is that this closeness gives people a false impression that they really understand America very deeply, and also leads people to close themselves off from the reality in places where they don't speak the language. The danger of monolingualism in a nutshell- a failure to understand countries that don't speak our language, and an even greater failure to understand those that do! |
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Post by riccimarsh on Nov 19, 2024 14:09:45 GMT
I suspect you'd be unimpressed with all three of these if you came to Germany. Anyone who thinks American food is bad is off their trolley. They have the best food in the western world. Followed by us. Other Europeans haven't yet twigged their native food sucks. Although most of that great food is a consequence of immigration. |
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Nov 19, 2024 14:19:20 GMT
Anyone who thinks American food is bad is off their trolley. They have the best food in the western world. Followed by us. Other Europeans haven't yet twigged their native food sucks. Although most of that great food is a consequence of immigration. Most of the crap food is as well. |
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