john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 15,536
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Post by john07 on Jul 26, 2024 16:48:30 GMT
I think you mean that he is not a professional engineer or a chartered engineer. Engineer means a number of different things. In the US, it was an engine driver. It can, in colloquial usage, mean a gas engineer, a telephone engineer. An engineering worker can mean anyone who is employed in an engineering workshop. The problem is that the professional/chartered engineering bodies have attempted to appropriate the term. I find this strange as most of the said bodies recognise technician engineers. I worked as a chartered surveyor and the RICS have a similar attitude, I mean it as in an engineer designs and builds solutions. A technician uses enginering solutions created by engineers. A fitter.... fits.... stuff. The chap who walks around you house measuring the walls and floors and specifies sizes of radiators and boiler is an engineer. The chap who drills holes in the walls, mounts radiators, and solders up pipes is a fitter. The chap who comes around once a year to service the boiler is a technician. Almost every job I've had in the last 15 years has had "engineer" on the badge. Exactly zero of them have actually been an engineer. There are similar issues in surveying. I qualified as a Chartered Surveyor at the ago of 23 and have been involved in the education of would be Charted Surveyors and Chartered Builders for many years. Most people seem to think that a surveyor is someone with a tape measure or a theodolite and a builder is someone with a shovel or a cement mixer. I can’t really say they are wrong. The architectural profession regulated the use of the term Architect to one who was qualified and a member of the RIBA or other approved institutions. The surveying profession never got this sort of statutory backing, so there are no restrictions on who can call themselves such. It’s a bit like Accounting. The old joke went are you a Chartered Accountant or a Certified Accountant. The answer was a Turf Accountant!
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Post by London Lad on Jul 26, 2024 16:54:39 GMT
I doubt he's an engineer, regardless of what it says on his badge. He'll be a fitter. Maybe a technician. I think you mean that he is not a professional engineer or a chartered engineer. Engineer means a number of different things. In the US, it was an engine driver. It can, in colloquial usage, mean a gas engineer, a telephone engineer. An engineering worker can mean anyone who is employed in an engineering workshop. The problem is that the professional/chartered engineering bodies have attempted to appropriate the term. I find this strange as most of the said bodies recognise technician engineers. I worked as a chartered surveyor and the RICS have a similar attitude, Certainly it depends on where you are - in Europe I am an Engineer, in the US I am a Mechanic.
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Post by sanders on Jul 26, 2024 18:41:11 GMT
I'm glad I put £50 on the Democrats winning Michigan with a potential £95 return. Free money, almost.
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Post by jimboo2017 on Jul 26, 2024 21:49:03 GMT
I think you mean that he is not a professional engineer or a chartered engineer. Engineer means a number of different things. In the US, it was an engine driver. It can, in colloquial usage, mean a gas engineer, a telephone engineer. An engineering worker can mean anyone who is employed in an engineering workshop. The problem is that the professional/chartered engineering bodies have attempted to appropriate the term. I find this strange as most of the said bodies recognise technician engineers. I worked as a chartered surveyor and the RICS have a similar attitude, Certainly it depends on where you are - in Europe I am an Engineer, in the US I am a Mechanic. I usually find I'm considered a cnut wherever I am
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,359
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 26, 2024 22:02:24 GMT
Certainly it depends on where you are - in Europe I am an Engineer, in the US I am a Mechanic. I usually find I'm considered a cnut wherever I am you need a new spellchecker
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,359
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Jul 26, 2024 23:12:43 GMT
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,390
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 26, 2024 23:54:18 GMT
I mean it as in an engineer designs and builds solutions. A technician uses enginering solutions created by engineers. A fitter.... fits.... stuff. The chap who walks around you house measuring the walls and floors and specifies sizes of radiators and boiler is an engineer. The chap who drills holes in the walls, mounts radiators, and solders up pipes is a fitter. The chap who comes around once a year to service the boiler is a technician. Almost every job I've had in the last 15 years has had "engineer" on the badge. Exactly zero of them have actually been an engineer. There are similar issues in surveying. I qualified as a Chartered Surveyor at the age of 23 and have been involved in the education of would be Charted Surveyors and Chartered Builders for many years. Most people seem to think that a surveyor is someone with a tape measure or a theodolite and a builder is someone with a shovel or a cement mixer. I can’t really say they are wrong. (...) I can "do" surveying and apparently do it better than people paid to do it: ![](https://mdfs.net/User/HWPS/Plans/NorrisRd/15NorrisRd.gif) The estate agent ignored these plans and threw together two 90-degree squares on each floor (note the diagonals!), put the windows in the wrong places, ignored the cellar and the roof space, put the attic bedroom above the front bedroom!, and put the stairs going the wrong way. I don't want to denigrate surveyors with certifications, but a lot of it is careful and accurate measurement and recording, and careful and accurate technical drawing (surely this is taught in schools, like what I was....). I gave the valuation agency site surveyor my plans of my shop, and she said she didn't need to bother doing anything herself: ![](https://mdfs.net/User/HWPS/Plans/SouthRd/358shop.gif)
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Post by sanders on Jul 27, 2024 1:39:56 GMT
If Kamala Harris had sense, she'd choose Pete Buttigieg as VP. Rust belt state mayor (South Bend), charismatic orator and effective interviewee, in my humble opinion.
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riccimarsh
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,522
Member is Online
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Post by riccimarsh on Jul 27, 2024 1:43:00 GMT
If Kamala Harris had sense, she'd choose Pete Buttigieg as VP. Rust belt state mayor (South Bend), charismatic orator and effective interviewee, in my humble opinion. You really don’t think the gay thing would be a big problem??
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Post by sanders on Jul 27, 2024 1:46:09 GMT
If Kamala Harris had sense, she'd choose Pete Buttigieg as VP. Rust belt state mayor (South Bend), charismatic orator and effective interviewee, in my humble opinion. You really don’t think the gay thing would be a big problem?? It might in states unlikely to vote Democratic in 2024 - most of the Lower South. However, Obergefell (gay marriage) was almost a decade ago. He's not my first choice - that would be Mark Kelly or Tony Evers or Jon Ossoff who hail from Arizona, Wisconsin and Georgia, respectively.
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Post by timmullen on Jul 27, 2024 2:02:24 GMT
You really don’t think the gay thing would be a big problem?? It might in states unlikely to vote Democratic - Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee. However, Obergefell (gay marriage) was almost a decade ago. I think it’s a risk in the Midwest area as well; the White socially conservative voter, including women, who opted for Biden four years ago is going to struggle to support a Black woman/gay man ticket against someone not afraid to milk their reservations - Trump is no John McCain taking the microphone off a supporter who questioned Obama’s loyalty to America. My instinct would be to go with Tim Walz - military with active service in Afghanistan, former schoolteacher in public education (so middle income), knocked off an incumbent Republican to win his House seat which has gone very rightward since he left (Finstad is very much a Trump acolyte), and has a moderate record both in the House and as Governor. On top of that he edges Shapiro on two grounds - government experience to balance the ticket much as we saw with Bush/Cheney, Obama/Biden and even Biden/Harris and wider “not just another lawyer” life experience.
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Post by sanders on Jul 27, 2024 2:07:29 GMT
It might in states unlikely to vote Democratic - Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana, Mississippi, Tennessee. However, Obergefell (gay marriage) was almost a decade ago. I think it’s a risk in the Midwest area as well; the White socially conservative voter, including women, who opted for Biden four years ago is going to struggle to support a Black woman/gay man ticket against someone not afraid to milk their reservations - Trump is no John McCain taking the microphone off a supporter who questioned Obama’s loyalty to America. My instinct would be to go with Tim Walz - military with active service in Afghanistan, former schoolteacher in public education (so middle income), knocked off an incumbent Republican to win his House seat which has gone very rightward since he left (Finstad is very much a Trump acolyte), and has a moderate record both in the House and as Governor. On top of that he edges Shapiro on two grounds - government experience to balance the ticket much as we saw with Bush/Cheney, Obama/Biden and even Biden/Harris and wider “not just another lawyer” life experience. All fair points. In Michigan (about 3% Muslim), I could see some people trying to exploit Buttigieg's homosexuality. Although he polled well in Iowa's caucus in 2020, I just logged into the online betting sites and I see betting has been suspended after putting money on the following outcomes on 7th July: Democrats winning Wisconsin at 4/5 (£50 bet with potential £90 return); Democrats winning Michigan at 10/11 (£50 bet with potential £95.45 return); Democrats winning Arizona at 1/1 (£50 bet with potential £100 return); Democrats winning Georgia at 2/1 (£50 bet with potential £150 return).
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jul 27, 2024 3:49:36 GMT
The VP should be Governor Shapiro from Pennsylvania. He did well over the Trump assassination attempt, unlike Biden, and should help them carry the state in a year when it looks like going red.
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Post by adlai52 on Jul 27, 2024 7:06:45 GMT
The VP should be Governor Shapiro from Pennsylvania. He did well over the Trump assassination attempt, unlike Biden, and should help them carry the state in a year when it looks like going red. The case for Shapiro is definitely getting stronger, his recent interventions on behalf of Harris are very fluent and suggests he's clearly interested in the VP spot. Meanwhile even if he gives Harris only the mildest of boosts in PA - maybe just a fraction of a percent - that could be the difference there and she has no path without PA. Waltz is another one who seems eager to audition for the running mate spot.
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Post by norflondon on Jul 27, 2024 7:34:33 GMT
Kelly, prima facie, appears to be tick a lot of boxes.
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Post by No Offence Alan on Jul 27, 2024 8:10:24 GMT
If Kamala Harris had sense, she'd choose Pete Buttigieg as VP. Rust belt state mayor (South Bend), charismatic orator and effective interviewee, in my humble opinion. You really don’t think the gay thing would be a big problem?? Are the "Log Cabin Republicans" still a thing?
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Post by sanders on Jul 27, 2024 8:15:07 GMT
Kelly, prima facie, appears to be tick a lot of boxes. Only issue is the Senate seat. Still, Katie Hobbs (D) picks successor.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Jul 27, 2024 8:21:48 GMT
You really don’t think the gay thing would be a big problem?? Are the "Log Cabin Republicans" still a thing? Yes, and, to be fair to them, they are more relevant than ever. Well, perhaps since the Briggs Initiative’s landslide defeat. Opposition to gay rights is now almost totally relegated to the past under Trump. Pretty much the one good thing Trump has done.
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Post by batman on Jul 27, 2024 8:32:21 GMT
I am not as expert in US elections as some here, I'm sure. However, it seems fairly clear that this election will be won or lost in a very small number of states. If Harris can win Pennsylvania, Michigan & Wisconsin she basically will win the election irrespective of what happens in AZ, NV or GA. It is a very high priority to pick a veep who can assist with carrying those states. Maybe Shapiro is best at this, but maybe another candidate is, I can't pretend to know for sure. It would be quite something for the Democrats to choose a veep who is Jewish & a presidential candidate who is married to a Jew. I'm in favour of whoever can win, basically, in these circumstances.
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Post by sanders on Jul 27, 2024 8:39:37 GMT
Are the "Log Cabin Republicans" still a thing? Yes, and, to be fair to them, they are more relevant than ever. Well, perhaps since the Briggs Initiative’s landslide defeat. Opposition to gay rights is now almost totally relegated to the past under Trump. Pretty much the one good thing Trump has done. Another reason Transportation Sec Buttigieg’s the top man.
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