|
Post by Devil Wincarnate on Dec 9, 2020 23:28:06 GMT
My favourite Nixon fact is that he funded his first congressional run with his poker winnings from the entire Second World War.
What a lad.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,640
|
Post by john07 on Dec 9, 2020 23:54:30 GMT
My favourite Nixon fact is that he funded his first congressional run with his poker winnings from the entire Second World War. What a lad. Certainly Nixon was a very smart operator. He was almost the antithesis of Trump: intelligent, not a great communicator, had serious strategic objectives and largely achieved them. He could have gone down as a great US President. Nixon’s flaws were there for all to see. He was paranoid without reason and would have beaten McGovern easily without any manipulation by the ‘plumbers’ and using dirty tricks. He could not help himself and this brought about his downfall and destroyed what would have been a considerable legacy of success from his presidency. Trump, on the other hand, is dumb, thick as pigshit, incompetent, thin skinned, deluded, and vindictive. He certainly shared the paranoia with Nixon, although probably with more reason.
|
|
|
Post by yellowperil on Dec 10, 2020 8:17:33 GMT
Quite. I think it would be fair to say Tricky Dicky was not your stereotypical Quaker. I'm not sure he ever was one. Quakers can claim birthright membership as adults but I don't think Nixonever did. I have always known him as a Quaker, even if not a practising one. Where has that come from?- I can't for the life of me think how I knew that if it didn't come from the man himself. I strongly suspect he would have used the fact in certain quarters if there were votes in it.
|
|
|
Post by Merseymike on Dec 10, 2020 9:01:22 GMT
I'm not sure he ever was one. Quakers can claim birthright membership as adults but I don't think Nixonever did. I have always known him as a Quaker, even if not a practising one. Where has that come from?- I can't for the life of me think how I knew that if it didn't come from the man himself. I strongly suspect he would have used the fact in certain quarters if there were votes in it. He was quite dismissive of Quaker values. American religious affiliations are never a secret! But to be a Quaker you have to either claim birthright membership if from a Quaker family or become a Quaker by convincement. I don't think he did either.
|
|
timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
|
Post by timmullen1 on Dec 10, 2020 9:27:59 GMT
I'm not sure he ever was one. Quakers can claim birthright membership as adults but I don't think Nixonever did. I have always known him as a Quaker, even if not a practising one. Where has that come from?- I can't for the life of me think how I knew that if it didn't come from the man himself. I strongly suspect he would have used the fact in certain quarters if there were votes in it. Just had a look at Woodward and Bernstein’s follow-up to “All The Presidents Men” and his mother was a Quaker, and it is said he was influenced by many Quaker beliefs, particularly his antipathy to war and drive to end American involvement in Vietnam. He was also a teetotaller which is attributed to his mother’s beliefs. However he was personally something of a religious gadfly, ranging from being a close follower of the teachings of Billy Graham to spending a lot of time during the last months of his Presidency receiving counsel from the lead Rabbi at Washington’s National Synagogue.
|
|
Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 11,565
Member is Online
|
Post by Khunanup on Dec 10, 2020 13:31:10 GMT
My favourite Nixon fact is that he funded his first congressional run with his poker winnings from the entire Second World War. What a lad. Certainly Nixon was a very smart operator. He was almost the antithesis of Trump: intelligent, not a great communicator, had serious strategic objectives and largely achieved them. He could have gone down as a great US President. Nixon’s flaws were there for all to see. He was paranoid without reason and would have beaten McGovern easily without any manipulation by the ‘plumbers’ and using dirty tricks. He could not help himself and this brought about his downfall and destroyed what would have been a considerable legacy of success from his presidency. Trump, on the other hand, is dumb, thick as pigshit, incompetent, thin skinned, deluded, and vindictive. He certainly shared the paranoia with Nixon, although probably with more reason. Though, even if he hadn't resigned, his legacy would have been destroyed eventually when it came out about how he undermined Vietnam peace talks plus expanded the parameters of the war, and therefore put thousands more people into a meat grinder they never emerged from, for his own political advantage. He might not have been as materially corrupt as Trump, but he was as morally bankrupt as Donny.
|
|
|
Post by therealriga on Dec 10, 2020 20:43:41 GMT
It once was said that "As goes Maine, so goes the Nation". After this was busted in 1932, in 1936 it was amended to "As goes Maine so goes Vermont". (Sorry for repeating this but had to be said.) It's a pity that Al Gore didn't argue that no-one had previously won New York and California and lost the election. Even if he didn't win it by a lot! link: 2004: No teetotal president has ever served two full terms. (both Harrisons, Lincoln, Hayes, Carter.) Bush junior did, but Trump has just made it 6-1 against the abstainers.
|
|
jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,893
|
Post by jamie on Dec 10, 2020 21:39:28 GMT
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,461
|
Post by mboy on Dec 10, 2020 21:40:28 GMT
*Most* House Republicans sign a treason charter: Edit: you SOB jamie that was like 5 seconds before me!
|
|
timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
|
Post by timmullen1 on Dec 10, 2020 22:30:46 GMT
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,461
|
Post by mboy on Dec 10, 2020 22:45:42 GMT
Missed this one:
|
|
peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,270
|
Post by peterl on Dec 10, 2020 23:09:02 GMT
*Most* House Republicans sign a treason charter. "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." (US Constitution, Article III, Section 3). I don't see how a legal challenge to an election, even if that challenge is without merit, meets this definition.
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,461
|
Post by mboy on Dec 10, 2020 23:32:13 GMT
You don't think that causing massive harm to the nation by trashing the Constitution and democratic process and attempting to overturn a legitimate election result in a proto-coup gives aid and comfort to Russia, China, and Iran?
Possibly a better charge is sedition at this point, but we'll see.
But I'm deadly serious when I say he should be charged. Those with long memories will recall I took exactly the same line against the Catalan seditionist Carles Puigdemont. If Hitler has been jailed for trashing the Weimar Constitution in 1934 the world would be very different...
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,640
|
Post by john07 on Dec 11, 2020 2:35:45 GMT
Apparently Trump has now added Iowa to Florida and Ohio to his list of states that no candidate has ever won without taking the presidency.
It was false originally and is still false.
Richard Nixon won all three states in 1960 and still lost the election to John F Kennedy.
Trump must think his supporters are as dumb as he is. He may have a point there!
Anyway, best of luck arguing that in SCOTUS.
|
|
|
Post by thirdchill on Dec 11, 2020 10:26:10 GMT
Apparently Trump has now added Iowa to Florida and Ohio to his list of states that no candidate has ever won without taking the presidency. It was false originally and is still false. Richard Nixon won all three states in 1960 and still lost the election to John F Kennedy. Trump must think his supporters are as dumb as he is. He may have a point there! Anyway, best of luck arguing that in SCOTUS. Not forgetting Florida 1992 as well, which George H W Bush won despite losing the election.
|
|
The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,813
|
Post by The Bishop on Dec 11, 2020 12:36:27 GMT
Trumpistas think the 1960 election was also "stolen" by the Dems, though. And tbf there is more evidence for genuinely dodgy stuff then than now.
|
|
|
Post by Richard Cromwell on Dec 11, 2020 13:10:55 GMT
Trumpistas think the 1960 election was also "stolen" by the Dems, though. And tbf there is more evidence for genuinely dodgy stuff then than now. Depending on how far down the Trumpist rabbit hole you travel, that is not universally true. The Kennedy administration is wrapped up in every conceivable version of the deep state "conspiracy theory" (including the QAnon cult) - the main Trumpist variants of which pitch the Orange Man as Kennedy's spiritual successor. * * * Apropos, it continues to disturb and astound me that my own ideological trajectory prefigured the rise to prominence of American fascism. Whereas, Trump is unlikely to praise Charles Coughlan by name (not least because he likely doesn't even know his name) - the beats are all there. Whereas the truly ghoulish things he says (such as that Lincoln shouldn't have freed the slaves) get lost in his real or feigned buffoonish way of speaking, his supporters make it clear as day that his movement is; anti-democratic, revisionist, ultranationalist, conspiracy theorist, racist, isolationist (and all the other "-ist" words we like to use when we are too shy to say fascist).
|
|
Richard Allen
Banned
Four time loser in VUKPOTY finals
Posts: 19,052
|
Post by Richard Allen on Dec 11, 2020 14:41:01 GMT
Trumpistas think the 1960 election was also "stolen" by the Dems, though. And tbf there is more evidence for genuinely dodgy stuff then than now. There is actually a considerable case to be made for that. It seems pretty likely that Kennedy's razor thin win in Illinois would not have happened without some pretty blatant cheating by Chicago Mayor Richard Daley. There is certainly some evidence of cheating in Texas as well but that is less clear and the margin was much wider. Those two states would have swung the election to Nixon.
|
|
john07
Labour & Co-operative
Posts: 14,640
|
Post by john07 on Dec 11, 2020 15:27:42 GMT
Trumpistas think the 1960 election was also "stolen" by the Dems, though. And tbf there is more evidence for genuinely dodgy stuff then than now. Too bloody true there was. Much of it was in Illinois where Mayor Daley ensured that there were enough votes in Chicago stuffed to take the State. Many black voters were offered a chicken to support the Democrat ticket and Daly’s police would come into the ballot booth to make sure! Taking Illinois would not have been sufficient for Nixon even if it tipped the popular vote. Nixon would have needed one more small State to flip to put the election in the hands of the Dixiecrat unpledged delegates from Alabama and Mississippi. I haven’t a clue how they would have gone? Two more States plus Illinois would probably give it to Nixon outright. Many of the States in the mid-west were knife edge including Michigan, Pennsylvania and Minnesota. Missouri and New Mexico were also very tight.
|
|
mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,461
|
Post by mboy on Dec 11, 2020 17:43:45 GMT
Is this where the narrative is going now for the GOP then - this is payback for the crime of 1960?
|
|