Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,824 
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 5, 2020 1:42:21 GMT
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 6, 2020 14:32:38 GMT
After the Parliament and government buildings were stormed by protestors, who freed political prisoners, the election has been annulled. Jeenbekov has been on TV ranting about "sinister forces" staging a coup, but he's probably finished.
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 7, 2020 12:52:10 GMT
The Prime Minister has been replaced by someone the protestors liberated from prison, while the President is now hinting he's going to go.
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,824
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 7, 2020 19:00:41 GMT
After the Parliament and government buildings were stormed by protestors, who freed political prisoners, the election has been annulled. Jeenbekov has been on TV ranting about "sinister forces" staging a coup, but he's probably finished. In "central Asia's model democracy" a surprising development! Demonstrating, how detached from the mood on the basis we foreigners can be. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 7, 2020 20:30:14 GMT
The Prime Minister has been replaced by someone the protestors liberated from prison, while the President is now hinting he's going to go. Is it known who is behind the protests? I presume it has to be either Russia or China I don't think a power is behind these protests. They happened pretty spontaneously out of pure rage, a bit like Belarus. Either way, it won't be Russia. The attempted dictator is pro Russia. |
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Oct 7, 2020 21:04:09 GMT
I don't think a power is behind these protests. They happened pretty spontaneously out of pure rage. A mass revolt happening spontaneously out of pure rage with no power behind it is something that has never happened. It's not going to happen for the first time in human history in Kyrgyzstan. The ordinary people of Kyrgyzstan are no more capable of doing such a thing than the ordinary people of any other country. There will be some power behind this and given geography as recent behaviour I'd guess it would be China It does though. It started out as a protest of 1000 people which, after the police used violence, turned into a riot. They then attacked government buildings and freed Almazbek Atambayev from prison. He's the popular former President. If you want a "power" it'd be him I guess. Thing is, this isn't about geo politics. There are Rusophilic parties on both sides of this. If anything, it's about the opposition using the fracas and its aftermath to try to prevent Kyrgyzstan, which has a history of relatively free elections, from turning into yet another managed democracy. Again, there's history for this too as back in 2010 there was a revolution in somewhat similar circumstances, |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306
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Post by maxque on Oct 7, 2020 21:58:46 GMT
It does though. It started out as a protest of 1000 people which, after the police used violence, turned into a riot. They then attacked government buildings and freed Almazbek Atambayev from prison. He's the popular former President. You want to believe that the ordinary people of any country are capable of spontaneously rising up like this all by themselves. You carry on believing that it it makes you happy but it's a delusion. There is always some power behind this type of thing. It is possible. You're biaised because your politicial soulmates find that getting out of their parents' basements is already an huge effort and can't fathom it. |
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Khunanup
Lib Dem
Portsmouth Liberal Democrats
Posts: 12,012
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Post by Khunanup on Oct 7, 2020 23:54:11 GMT
It is possible. You're biaised because your politicial soulmates find that getting out of their parents' basements is already an huge effort and can't fathom it. If it's possible then why has it never happened? It's only 'never happened' in the minds of conspiracy theorists who don't believe ordinary people have independent agency to do anything extraordinary and there's always some shadowy power behind everything. |
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Georg Ebner
Non-Aligned
Roman romantic reactionary Catholic
Posts: 9,824
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Post by Georg Ebner on Oct 8, 2020 1:01:42 GMT
It does though. It started out as a protest of 1000 people which, after the police used violence, turned into a riot. They then attacked government buildings and freed Almazbek Atambayev from prison. He's the popular former President. You want to believe that the ordinary people of any country are capable of spontaneously rising up like this all by themselves. You carry on believing that it it makes you happy but it's a delusion. There is always some power behind this type of thing. As said in another thread, spontaneous revolts against one/few tyrants abusing the order have happened, but they haven't been conducted against the order itself. Whereas behind revolutions have always been utopistical ideologies. Tragically - and history demonstrates, that the conditio humana is tragical - the (usually righteous) rebellions against an AbUse have failed due to their unsystematic aimlessness, while the (always wrong) revolutions have succeeded. In this case it was perhaps (also) a revenge of the south against the north, which had led the revolution 10 years ago (similar to Albania).? Perhaps not initially, but probably later China and/or Russia have participated to some extent. |
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Post by Defenestrated Fipplebox on Oct 8, 2020 7:15:26 GMT
No point in basing what happens in other countries on what happens in the UK, which is something I think we all have a tendency to do. Different histories mean different reactions, at different speeds and at different times.
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Post by John Chanin on Oct 8, 2020 8:38:33 GMT
Kyrgyzstan is relatively open and free (the nomadic inheritance may have something to do with this). Politics, like in most countries, is about division of the spoils. Being in power means it’s your hand in the till. Being out of power means it’s you being taxed. People, everywhere, all the time, hate this. So eruptions against the people currently in power are inevitable unless there is effective repression, and there isn’t in Kyrgyzstan.
I very much doubt that outside countries have anything at all to do with it. There are historical tensions between north and south, which are barely linked, although all weather roads have now been built by the Chinese. There are ethnic tensions in the south, as the large Uzbek population in the Fergana has gone from dominance, economically and numerically, to subordination to corrupt and incompetent political Kyrgyz appointments. Hundreds of people have died in three outbreaks of ethnic conflict in the last 30 years. Two-thirds of the Russians have emigrated, although there is still a large population in Bishkek, and Russian is still an everyday language. My guides on both trips to the country were ethnic Russians who spoke no Kyrgyz. This was not a problem. But Russians have no political power in present day Kyrgyzstan, and are down to less than 10% of the population.
So this is all about who gets to steal the money. This is done by exploiting the general public’s dislike of the rampant corruption. Since this doesn’t stop, a revolt every few years is what results. What’s interesting is why effective apparatus of repression has never developed here, unlike all its neighbours.
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 29, 2020 21:04:08 GMT
You want to believe that the ordinary people of any country are capable of spontaneously rising up like this all by themselves. You carry on believing that it it makes you happy but it's a delusion. There is always some power behind this type of thing. It is possible. You're biaised because your politicial soulmates find that getting out of their parents' basements is already an huge effort and can't fathom it. Why do you feel that insults of this nature are appropriate? |
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maxque
Non-Aligned
Posts: 9,306
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Post by maxque on Oct 29, 2020 21:10:13 GMT
It is possible. You're biaised because your politicial soulmates find that getting out of their parents' basements is already an huge effort and can't fathom it. Why do you feel that insults of this nature are appropriate? Do you think his views on torture are appropriate? Debate has been attempted by multiple users at multiple times with "kipper", but it has never given anything. As moderation is unwilling to take the trash out, I may as well use them to vent frustation (as the administration will either do nothing or expose themselves as hypocrites by talking action). |
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neilm
Non-Aligned
Posts: 25,023
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Post by neilm on Oct 29, 2020 21:30:38 GMT
Why do you feel that insults of this nature are appropriate? Do you think his views on torture are appropriate? Debate has been attempted by multiple users at multiple times with "kipper", but it has never given anything. As moderation is unwilling to take the trash out, I may as well use them to vent frustation (as the administration will either do nothing or expose themselves as hypocrites by talking action). I take no position on his views on torture. However, I do take a position on your second paragraph: he's laid out his position very clearly. You just don't like it. The broader issue is that you like making snide comments about people or groups: Tory voters in East London for example. You can dish it out but when I asked you why you thought insults of this nature were fine you deflected. Which suggests you can't take it. |
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