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Post by jacoblamsden on Apr 2, 2020 11:02:24 GMT
The good burghers of Royal Tunbridge Wells tend to consider themselves a cut above their neighbours in Tonbridge, a much smaller town just up the A26. As a result, it is little wonder they long resented not just having to cohabit with Tonbridge in a single parliamentary constituency, but having to do so in a constituency named Tonbridge, with no mention of the royal town at all. But ever since a seperate Tunbridge Wells division was created in 1974, the boundaries have been broadly similar, encompassing the vast majority of the Borough of Tunbridge Wells apart from the rural eastern edge surrounding Cranbrook and Sissinghurst. This area has few connections with central Tunbridge Wells and has quite sensibly been in a constituency with Maidstone since 1997.
The constituency is dominated by Tunbridge Wells town itself. Whilst most large towns and cities may be best known for a famous landmark or local resident, Tunbridge Wells is perhaps the only place best known for a state of mind. ‘Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells’ is a term used for a person, usually with strongly conservative political views, who writes letters to newspapers or the BBC in a tone of moral outrage. The phrase was allegedly popularised by the editor of a local newspaper, the Tunbridge Wells Advertiser, who, alarmed from a lack of letters from readers, insisted his staff write a few to fill space, signing them simply ‘Disgusted, Tunbridge Wells’. Tunbridge Wells’ stuffy reputation even features in E.M. Forster’s A Room with a View, with Charlotte Bartlett commenting ‘I am used to Tunbridge Wells, where we are all hopelessly behind the times’. Today though, any image of Tunbridge Wells as a bastion of small-c conservatism is itself, a bit behind the times. The town today is very much a part of the London commuter belt and it has the social and political characteristics to match. While it clearly votes Conservative nationally, with Greg Clark’s majority over 14,000, the Liberal Democrats surged into a strong second place in 2019, primarily because Tunbridge Wells voted narrowly to remain in the EU referendum, the only district in Kent to do so. However, there is one institution many think is outdated and unfashionable that Tunbridge Wells residents will go all out to defend – grammar schools. The main reason why the town is as desirable place to live now as when it was a fashionable Georgian resort town is the quality of its schools, with three top-performing grammar schools located along the St John’s Road. These act as a magnet for families desperate to skimp on private school fees and undoubtedly make the town more Conservative than if it had a comprehensive system.
As with many similar towns, traditional areas of party strength count for little in a political climate dominated by Brexit. The Conservatives used to do best in the most opulent areas of Tunbridge Wells – Hungershall Park, Warwick Park, Culverden and Molyneux, as well as the outlying villages. Labour had a foothold in the surprisingly large number of working-class districts, in particular the old brick-making centre of High Brooms and the peripheral council estates of Sherwood, Showfields and Ramslye. The Lib Dems were strong in the more middle-of-the-road parts of town, particularly around St James’ and St John’s. More mixed was the only other sizable settlement in the constituency, Paddock Wood, a town known as a hotspot for ‘white flighters’ leaving south London. Reflective of how social class is a much weaker indicator of vote choice than ever before, the Conservatives now do about equally well in all areas of the constituency, with Labour still having some residual support in the working-class districts and the Lib Dems surging in the more remain areas around the town centre. The local elections though are a different kettle of fish. While the Conservatives looked unassailable until a few years ago, they suddenly lost their way after supporting a development which would have seen a new theatre and council offices built in the grounds of historic Calverley Park. They have struggled to win a council seat since, losing almost all but a handful of rural wards to a mixture of Labour, Liberal Democrat, Independent and ‘Tunbridge Wells Alliance’ councillors. Even though the ‘Calverley Square’ project is now dead, the Conservatives are almost inevitably going to lose control of the council in the next set of elections as the opposition parties have finally found a way to win in Tunbridge Wells – being more conservative than the Conservatives. On second thoughts, perhaps Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells really is alive and well.
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 29, 2020 13:48:28 GMT
It is not by any means the largest town in West Kent, still less 'always been'. I warrant the far older Gravesend is as large or larger, and the also older Dartford is definitely larger by some way.
EDIT
Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham are all bigger as well and all are firmly in West Kent. TW is is no way the long time largest town in West Kent.
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Post by finsobruce on Apr 29, 2020 14:13:55 GMT
It is not by any means the largest town in West Kent, still less 'always been'. I warrant the far older Gravesend is as large or larger, and the also older Dartford is definitely larger by some way. EDIT Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham are all bigger as well and all are firmly in West Kent. TW is is no way the long time largest town in West Kent. Is it perhaps in with a shout for the "smallest large town in West Kent" ?  |
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 29, 2020 15:28:45 GMT
It is not by any means the largest town in West Kent, still less 'always been'. I warrant the far older Gravesend is as large or larger, and the also older Dartford is definitely larger by some way. EDIT Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham are all bigger as well and all are firmly in West Kent. TW is is no way the long time largest town in West Kent. What is your definition of West Kent? If the divide is the Medway, which is the common useage, then all the big Medway towns are on the right bank, as of course is Maidstone , mostly. You haven't mentioned Maidstone so where do you place it?- my getout would be to regard all of those as MidKent, neither one thing nor t'other. I do agree though that on most definitions both Dartford and Gravesend are bigger than RTW., as well as older. To define RTW as the largest town in West Kent you would have to restrict West Kent to the area round , well, Royal Tunbridge Wells. It's bigger than, say Tonbridge, Sevenoaks, Edenbridge or Malling! Of course some people will want to insist on Bromley as being in West Kent as well. |
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 29, 2020 15:46:03 GMT
It is not by any means the largest town in West Kent, still less 'always been'. I warrant the far older Gravesend is as large or larger, and the also older Dartford is definitely larger by some way. EDIT Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham are all bigger as well and all are firmly in West Kent. TW is is no way the long time largest town in West Kent. What is your definition of West Kent? If its west of the Medway, the common useage, all the Medway towns are basically east of that -certainly Chatham and Gillingham, also Rochester is basically on the right bank and only Strood on the left bank. Maidstone of course is fundamentally a right-bank town, though there its a bit more arguable, but then you didn't mention Maidstone. My get out is to regard all of those as Mid-Kent , neither properly one thing or t'other. I agree on most definitions Gravesend and Dartford are bigger than Royal Tunbridge Wells, as well as around longer, so RTW is only the largest town in south-west Kent, because its definitely bigger than Sevenoaks or Edenbridge! |
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 29, 2020 21:54:06 GMT
Kent being a near rectangle, draw a north south line at the mid point. To the left is West Kent. That includes all these. Do not confuse the rather arcane stuff about Kentish Man and Man of Kent nonsense with relationship to Medway, as it has nothing much to do with what is east and what is west. Those are just simple matters of plain obvious fact.
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Post by bjornhattan on Apr 29, 2020 22:33:59 GMT
It is not by any means the largest town in West Kent, still less 'always been'. I warrant the far older Gravesend is as large or larger, and the also older Dartford is definitely larger by some way. EDIT Rochester, Chatham and Gillingham are all bigger as well and all are firmly in West Kent. TW is is no way the long time largest town in West Kent. And while it might not be administratively in Kent any more, Bromley is also significantly larger. |
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 30, 2020 6:01:39 GMT
Hmm... not sure that you can sort these things out with a ruler, and I'm always suspicious of "simple matters of plain obvious fact" as an argument. Maybe you could have pointed to a psephological argument- more relevant on here- and looked at the last time East Kent and West Kent were entities for electoral purposes, which was of course the original Euro-constituences, in which both Maidstone and the Medway towns were in the West Kent constituency, so that supports your case. However , as the original West Kent constituency also I believe included East Surrey, maybe that's not conclusive either. I still prefer the Medway as the obvious divide.
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Post by carlton43 on Apr 30, 2020 13:16:40 GMT
And I fully respect your decision to avoid the facts and the truth as that is a very LD formulation. Assess the position. Come to the wrong conclusions for abstruse reasons. Defend that position against all reason down to last 6-constituencies. Repeat the formulation on a succession of principled policy positions for over 100-years. Attempt to alter voting systems to make it 'come right'. Huddle in corner shouting abuse.
Fine. Perfectly happy with all of that. The results are just what I require.
Referendum anyone? On anything?
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Post by yellowperil on Apr 30, 2020 13:24:26 GMT
Is the lock down getting to you, by any chance? If your last post was a response to my previous one which came as near as dammit to agreeing your point, it is very odd indeed.
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Post by jacoblamsden on May 5, 2020 19:31:23 GMT
Only just got around to re-editing this profile after a busy few weeks at work - never realised calling TW the largest town in West Kent would prove so contentious! You are probably right to take issue with it so I've changed the first few sentences.
If you asked most people in TW though, they'd say that the main places in West Kent are TW, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Edenbridge. Dartford, Gravesend etc would be in North Kent and Maidstone and Ashford would be in 'Mid Kent'. That's probably because Tunbridge Wells feels quite disconnected from all of Kent apart from the small 'A21 corridor'. It is much easier to get to Crowborough (E.Sussex), Oxted (Surrey), East Grinstead (W. Sussex) or Bromley (Gtr London), than Ashford or Maidstone. From my house in TW, it is even quicker to drive to south Essex than it is to drive over to Ashford. But as the people of Tunbridge Wells are not always right, I've changed it!
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Post by yellowperil on May 5, 2020 20:29:34 GMT
Only just got around to re-editing this profile after a busy few weeks at work - never realised calling TW the largest town in West Kent would prove so contentious! You are probably right to take issue with it so I've changed the first few sentences. If you asked most people in TW though, they'd say that the main places in West Kent are TW, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Edenbridge. Dartford, Gravesend etc would be in North Kent and Maidstone and Ashford would be in 'Mid Kent'. That's probably because Tunbridge Wells feels quite disconnected from all of Kent apart from the small 'A21 corridor'. It is much easier to get to Crowborough (E.Sussex), Oxted (Surrey), East Grinstead (W. Sussex) or Bromley (Gtr London), than Ashford or Maidstone. From my house in TW, it is even quicker to drive to south Essex than it is to drive over to Ashford. But as the people of Tunbridge Wells are not always right, I've changed it! I have been doing the run to TW regularly earlier this year, so actually from Pluckley rather than from Ashford and it was a 45/50 minutes dawdle on the country roads (it's only 24 miles). Takes me 10 minutes into Ashford from here, so I guess the Ashford -TW run would be just under the hour, out of peak times at least. Can you get through the Dartford Crossing in less than that?I guess so, again out of peak times? |
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Post by jacoblamsden on May 5, 2020 20:51:35 GMT
Only just got around to re-editing this profile after a busy few weeks at work - never realised calling TW the largest town in West Kent would prove so contentious! You are probably right to take issue with it so I've changed the first few sentences. If you asked most people in TW though, they'd say that the main places in West Kent are TW, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Edenbridge. Dartford, Gravesend etc would be in North Kent and Maidstone and Ashford would be in 'Mid Kent'. That's probably because Tunbridge Wells feels quite disconnected from all of Kent apart from the small 'A21 corridor'. It is much easier to get to Crowborough (E.Sussex), Oxted (Surrey), East Grinstead (W. Sussex) or Bromley (Gtr London), than Ashford or Maidstone. From my house in TW, it is even quicker to drive to south Essex than it is to drive over to Ashford. But as the people of Tunbridge Wells are not always right, I've changed it! I have been doing the run to TW regularly earlier this year, so actually from Pluckley rather than from Ashford and it was a 45/50 minutes dawdle on the country roads (it's only 24 miles). Takes me 10 minutes into Ashford from here, so I guess the Ashford -TW run would be just under the hour, out of peak times at least. Can you get through the Dartford Crossing in less than that?I guess so, again out of peak times? Yes! It normally takes me around 45 minutes to get to Brentwood and an hour to get to Ashford (both off peak) - but I do live on the right side of town to get north on the A21 quickly and the wrong side for going anywhere east of TW. |
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Post by carlton43 on May 6, 2020 9:52:13 GMT
Only just got around to re-editing this profile after a busy few weeks at work - never realised calling TW the largest town in West Kent would prove so contentious! You are probably right to take issue with it so I've changed the first few sentences. If you asked most people in TW though, they'd say that the main places in West Kent are TW, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Edenbridge. Dartford, Gravesend etc would be in North Kent and Maidstone and Ashford would be in 'Mid Kent'. That's probably because Tunbridge Wells feels quite disconnected from all of Kent apart from the small 'A21 corridor'. It is much easier to get to Crowborough (E.Sussex), Oxted (Surrey), East Grinstead (W. Sussex) or Bromley (Gtr London), than Ashford or Maidstone. From my house in TW, it is even quicker to drive to south Essex than it is to drive over to Ashford. But as the people of Tunbridge Wells are not always right, I've changed it! I think that I am going to labour this point a bit because I feel you to be so fundamentally wrong about the natural geography. Kent is a wide rectangle so talk of North and Mid is not helpful. It is very much a matter of East and West. And in those terms Dartford, Gravesend, the Medway towns and Maidstone are clearly in West Kent and there is no doubt over the matter. Then we come to the absolutely absurdist contention that it is quicker to drive from TW to South Essex than it is to Ashford. That cannot be true even on days of light traffic and late at night. It is farther to Essex and one has the problems of junctions and river crossings often with attendent hold-ups. Then there is the getting to a place in Essex as well, for the objective of just setting foot on the first bit of Essex soil would be a bit pointless wouldn't it? That is an area people 'pass through' rather than 'go to'! You over egged your pudding concerning the size and importance of TW. It isn't older, bigger or more significant, and that is why it never formed a constituency until late in the 20thC. |
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Post by jacoblamsden on May 6, 2020 13:05:41 GMT
Only just got around to re-editing this profile after a busy few weeks at work - never realised calling TW the largest town in West Kent would prove so contentious! You are probably right to take issue with it so I've changed the first few sentences. If you asked most people in TW though, they'd say that the main places in West Kent are TW, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Edenbridge. Dartford, Gravesend etc would be in North Kent and Maidstone and Ashford would be in 'Mid Kent'. That's probably because Tunbridge Wells feels quite disconnected from all of Kent apart from the small 'A21 corridor'. It is much easier to get to Crowborough (E.Sussex), Oxted (Surrey), East Grinstead (W. Sussex) or Bromley (Gtr London), than Ashford or Maidstone. From my house in TW, it is even quicker to drive to south Essex than it is to drive over to Ashford. But as the people of Tunbridge Wells are not always right, I've changed it! I think that I am going to labour this point a bit because I feel you to be so fundamentally wrong about the natural geography. Kent is a wide rectangle so talk of North and Mid is not helpful. It is very much a matter of East and West. And in those terms Dartford, Gravesend, the Medway towns and Maidstone are clearly in West Kent and there is no doubt over the matter. Then we come to the absolutely absurdist contention that it is quicker to drive from TW to South Essex than it is to Ashford. That cannot be true even on days of light traffic and late at night. It is farther to Essex and one has the problems of junctions and river crossings often with attendent hold-ups. Then there is the getting to a place in Essex as well, for the objective of just setting foot on the first bit of Essex soil would be a bit pointless wouldn't it? That is an area people 'pass through' rather than 'go to'! You over egged your pudding concerning the size and importance of TW. It isn't older, bigger or more significant, and that is why it never formed a constituency until late in the 20thC. Its all very well saying I'm wrong but I regularly have to travel to both Brentwood and Ashford for work and it is almost always quicker to get to Brentwood. I've just put my address into Google Maps to double-check and it says 44 minutes to Brentwood and 1hr 3 to Ashford. They've now got rid of the attendants at the Dartford crossing so there are far fewer hold-ups crossing the Thames than there used to be.
I totally get your point on the natural geography of Kent, but I've spoken to enough people in Tunbridge Wells over the last few years to get a sense of how people in this part of the world see the geography of the county. They may not be objectively right, but how people in a certain community percieve their surroundings and why they do so is still valuable and interesting - as well as highly relevant to its politics (see Sutton Coldfield, Havering, Chingford, etc)
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Post by Robert Waller on Jul 3, 2021 21:08:34 GMT
2011 Census
Age 65+ 16.4% 352/650
Owner-occupied 65.7% 362/650
Private rented 17.3% 190/650
Social rented 15.0% 353/650
White 94.8% 326/650
Black 0.6% 345/650
Asian 2.6% 323/650
Managerial & professional 40.6%
Routine & Semi-routine 19.7%
Degree level 34.9% 92/650
No qualifications 16.9% 568/650
Students 6.6% 362/650
2021 Census
Owner occupied 66.0% 289/573
Private rented 19.6% 220/573
Social rented 14.4% 317/573
White 91.2%
Black 1.0%
Asian 4.2%
Managerial & professional 43.1% 57/573
Routine & Semi-routine 17.7% 473/573
Degree level 41.5% 88/573
No qualifications 13.4% 501/573
General Election 2019: Tunbridge Wells
Party Candidate Votes % ±%
Conservative Greg Clark 30,119 55.1 -1.8
Liberal Democrats Ben Chapelard 15,474 28.3 +18.4
Labour Antonio Weiss 8,098 14.8 -11.7
Independent Christopher Camp 488 0.9
Independent Nigel Peacock 471 0.9
C Majority 14,645 26.8 -3.6
Turnout 54,650 73.0 +0.9
Conservative hold
Swing 10.1 C to LD
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Post by finsobruce on Dec 2, 2021 17:57:32 GMT
Only just got around to re-editing this profile after a busy few weeks at work - never realised calling TW the largest town in West Kent would prove so contentious! You are probably right to take issue with it so I've changed the first few sentences. If you asked most people in TW though, they'd say that the main places in West Kent are TW, Sevenoaks, Tonbridge and Edenbridge. Dartford, Gravesend etc would be in North Kent and Maidstone and Ashford would be in 'Mid Kent'. That's probably because Tunbridge Wells feels quite disconnected from all of Kent apart from the small 'A21 corridor'. It is much easier to get to Crowborough (E.Sussex), Oxted (Surrey), East Grinstead (W. Sussex) or Bromley (Gtr London), than Ashford or Maidstone. From my house in TW, it is even quicker to drive to south Essex than it is to drive over to Ashford. But as the people of Tunbridge Wells are not always right, I've changed it! Personally I'm enjoying re-visiting the West Kent controversy.  |
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Post by where2travel on Dec 5, 2021 14:32:11 GMT
2011 CensusAge 65+ 16.4% 352/650 Owner-occupied 65.7% 362/650 Private rented 17.3% 190/650 Social rented 15.0% 353/650 White 94.8% 326/650 Black 0.6% 345/650 Asian 2.6% 323/650 Managerial & professional 40.6% Routine & Semi-routine 19.7% Degree level 34.9% 92/650 No qualifications 16.9% 568/650 Students 6.6% 362/650 Not knowing this constituency in any detail, with the exception of the education statistics, I'm surprised just how "middling" all the other statistics are (nearly all hovering around the low-mid 300s ranking). I'd have imagined it much higher for owner-occupied and white and lower for the corresponding statistics and students. |
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