Ashford

[yellowperil]

Ashford

This constituency name has existed since 1885, and in those 135 years has had just 10 MPs, all but one of them Conservative! The exception was Rev Roderick Kedward, the Liberal who represented the seat from 1929-31, and who still has a memorial stone now erected in the town's cattle market. But suffice to say this generally a very safe Conservative seat.

It should be said though this constituency has changed radically in that time. Originally it was much larger and all deeply rural apart from Ashford itself, a small market town which since the 1840s had also doubled up as a railway town with a 5-line junction and railway works, but the hinterland extending westwards as far as the Wealden towns of Tenterden and Cranbrook and eastwards to include Romney Marsh and two more market towns, Lydd and New Romney. As Ashford grew, the remoter bits of the constituency got lopped of, so only Tenterden and the nearer villages remained with Ashford within the constituency. From 1983 to 2010 the constituency had become coterminous with Ashford Borough, which from a psephological point of view was a happy state of affairs, but continuing growth made that impossible and in 2010 one Ashford rural ward known as Saxon Shore comprising 4 villages perched on the ridge above Romney Marsh, Aldington, Bilsington, Bonnington, and Ruckinge, together with 4 more villages, Smeeth, Brabourne, Brook and Hastingleigh,originally also in Saxon Shore but now forming Bircholt, were transferred into Folkestone and Hythe for Westminster election purposes. Ashford has been conspiring to get them back ever since! Had the 600 seat Westminster proposal remained intact, there might indeed been a case for readmitting Saxon Shore and Bircholt, not least because Folkestone and Hythe is also growing, but eventually another bit of the Borough may need to be lopped off and the most likely candidate is always Tenterden and district, which it can always be argued belongs back with its Wealden neighbours like Headcorn and Cranbrook.

For those who don't understand the Saxon Shore reference, It refers to the Roman defensive line against the marauding Anglo-Saxons! There was a line of defences around the Kent coast, including Lympne(PORTUS LEMANIS) on this old ridge line above the Marsh, so in the F&H bit of the Saxon shore ,then on through Dover(DUBRIS) and round to the North Kent
coast at Reculver (REGULBIUM). A reminder perhaps that this part of the world has always been repelling the enemy across the water, even when it was the Romans holding off the Anglo-Saxons.

Since 2010 therefore, Ashford constituency comprises
(1) Ashford Town, the unparished bit of the Borough (so far), which subdivides into 4 component parts,(a) Ashford town proper, basically north of the Great Stour and really the old market town, (b)South Ashford which grew rapidly after the coming of the railways (c) the village of Willesborough, best known as the home of William Harvey, but which expanded rapidly as Ashford industrialised and became part of urban Ashford, and (d) Kennington, the village immediately north of Ashford which became a more residential suburb. By 1918 this all comprised the Ashford UDC.
(2) Tenterden Town, a Borough in its own right until Ashford took over, and now reduced to a town council.
(3) Stanhope parish, basically a 1960s London overspill development carved out of Kingsnorth parish
(4) a group of suburbanised parishes around the edge of Ashford, all of which have a real village core but which now have big residential estates swamping them. They are Boughton Aluph with Eastwell (strictly two parishes but with a combined parish council), Great Chart with Singleton, Mersham, Kingsnorth and Sevington
(5) The remaining parishes which are still largely rural, of which there are still 25, ranging from places like Charing which are sustantial villages down to places like Little Chart which really are , well, little, but all of which retain a genuinely rural feel.

There is about 130,000 people in Ashford Borough- knock off  4,000 for Saxon Shore and Bircholt.  The latest figure I have for the population of the unparished Ashford Town  area is 56,000 but it is growing fast- lots of new town centre flats, within the last two years;  8,000 in Tenterden; 4,000 in Stanhope. My figure for the 5 suburbanised parishes is 24,000  but I guess that  is understated, but would suggest the population of Ashford town and suburban estates as about 84,000. That would leave 34,000 for the 25 remaining rural parishes, which may be a bit high.The 2021 census will be eagerly awaited.

The Borough council results from 2019 will be less useful  in telling us about the present political position in the constituency than would normally be the case. There are two reasons for this. First is that the Borough has 42 wards of which a mere 7 are 2-member and the rest all single -member. All those single member wards , all going together every 4 years, means that local elections are much more genuinely localised than is usually the case, and party structures are a lot weaker, unless you are the Tories, who are so dominant at every level they can overcome this.  The second, and maybe a consequence of the first, is that the strongest opposition to the Conservatives comes from the Ashford Independents, who currently have 12 seats to the Tories 25. Labour have  just 7, the Greens 2, the Lib Dems , who for one cycle back in the last century were running the council, have now no  representation at Borough level at all.  There is one Independent, as against Ashford Independent!

There is very little geographical pattern in these results. Traditionally  South Ashford would be Labour, and they still have Beaver and Victoria from that area,and they hold Stanhope, but they also have seats in Furley, within Ashford proper and Bockhanger which is within Kennington. The seats they hold look a lot more likely to be  related  to the particular candidates they put up. Traditionally Willesborough would be solidly Lib Dem , and their  collapse has let in the Greens and the AI in some cases. Some areas you would expect to be solidly Tory have gone Ashford Independent.

[yellowperil]

It has dawned on me, somewhat belatedly, that I made a silly error in my first post on this thread, in that I forgot one effect of the re-warding of Ashford in 2017. Before that, Saxon Shore was a larger 2- member ward, and the reference to Saxon Shore being transferred to Folkestone & Hythe will apply to all of that. In 2017 a new ward was created called Bircholt and comprising 4 more parishes: Smeeth , Brabourne, Brook and Hastingleigh. Saxon Shore was always something of a misnomer for these "inland" villages and given the Ashford preference for single member wards it is not altogether surprising this was changed so there are now two one member wards.I will correct the initial text accordingly.

[finsobruce]

Mar 31, 2020 8:15:33 GMT yellowperil said:

It has dawned on me, somewhat belatedly, that I made a silly error in my first post on this thread, in that I forgot one effect of the re-warding of Ashford in 2017. Before that, Saxon Shore was a larger 2- member ward, and the reference to Saxon Shore being transferred to Folkestone & Hythe will apply to all of that. In 2017 a new ward was created called Bircholt and comprising 4 more parishes: Smeeth , Brabourne, Brook and Hastingleigh. Saxon Shore was always something of a misnomer for these "inland" villages and given the Ashford preference for single member wards it is not altogether surprising this was changed so there are now two one member wards.I will correct the initial text accordingly.

There is now some dispute in archaeological circles that the structures are 'forts' at all. or that the Saxons actually invaded and needed repelling.

[yellowperil]

Mar 31, 2020 8:40:10 GMT finsobruce said:

Mar 31, 2020 8:15:33 GMT yellowperil said:

It has dawned on me, somewhat belatedly, that I made a silly error in my first post on this thread, in that I forgot one effect of the re-warding of Ashford in 2017. Before that, Saxon Shore was a larger 2- member ward, and the reference to Saxon Shore being transferred to Folkestone & Hythe will apply to all of that. In 2017 a new ward was created called Bircholt and comprising 4 more parishes: Smeeth , Brabourne, Brook and Hastingleigh. Saxon Shore was always something of a misnomer for these "inland" villages and given the Ashford preference for single member wards it is not altogether surprising this was changed so there are now two one member wards.I will correct the initial text accordingly.

There is now some dispute in archaeological circles that the structures are 'forts' at all. or that the Saxons actually invaded and needed repelling.

Yes I was aware of this, but in trying to explain the term Saxon Shore to anyone who hadn't met it, it was easier to start with the received orthodoxy! Not convinced by the current revisionism anyway in so far as they refer to the structures at Lympne and Reculver particularly.

[finsobruce]

Mar 31, 2020 8:49:10 GMT yellowperil said:

Mar 31, 2020 8:40:10 GMT finsobruce said:

There is now some dispute in archaeological circles that the structures are 'forts' at all. or that the Saxons actually invaded and needed repelling.

Yes I was aware of this, but in trying to explain the term Saxon Shore to anyone who hadn't met it, it was easier to start with the received orthodoxy! Not convinced by the current revisionism anyway in so far as they refer to the structures at Lympne and Reculver particularly.

I have just re-read R C Sherriff's late play "The Long Sunset" which deals with a Romano British family left behind when the last legion departs for the continent. Worth a read if you can find a copy for a reasonable price - it took me quite a while to track one down. 

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2020 8:56:21 GMT finsobruce said:

Mar 31, 2020 8:49:10 GMT yellowperil said:

Yes I was aware of this, but in trying to explain the term Saxon Shore to anyone who hadn't met it, it was easier to start with the received orthodoxy! Not convinced by the current revisionism anyway in so far as they refer to the structures at Lympne and Reculver particularly.

I have just re-read R C Sherriff's late play "The Long Sunset" which deals with a Romano British family left behind when the last legion departs for the continent. Worth a read if you can find a copy for a reasonable price - it took me quite a while to track one down. 

The legions didn't leave - at least, not in the way commonly assumed.

The British garrison (and, seemingly, at least some of the leading provincials) had supported the usurpation of Constantine III in 406, following the huge barbarian eruption into Gaul a few months earlier. We must assume that much of the garrison then departed with him to the Continent. However, by 409 - probably triggered by Constantine's loss of Spain - the British realised they had backed the wrong horse. They expelled his officials, transferring their allegiance back to Honorius in Ravenna, and the Emperor's famous letter of 410 telling them to look to their own defence would have been a response to this. Though the correspondence is directly or indirectly attested in various sources,we do not know exactly what was said by either side. However, the overwhelming likelihood is that Honorius was not abandoning Britain, but authorising or recognising the formation of a provisional government and suspending the Lex Iulia to permit the British to supplement whatever was left of the garrison with emergency levies of their own (or the hire of mercenaries). Similar things happened on a number of occasions elsewhere during the crisis of the C5.

The reasons that Honorius did not immediately resume control of Britain were that:-

1. he did not have the resources of money and manpower to do so;
2. he did not have physical access to Britain, as Gaul was not then under his control;
3. he had desperate military problems to deal with in every single continental region of his realm, including Italy; and
4. contrary to popular belief in this country, Britain was not then under serious threat.

In 410 nobody, in Britain or Ravenna, would have realised that anything had permanently changed. For a generation thereafter, life in Britain continued without any obvious dislocation, though with a rapid fading away of Romanitas in terms of material culture (except among the elite, where Roman-style education was still available a century later).

Gradually the expectation that the old normality would be restored would have waned, but there is some evidence that the Roman authorities remained interested, and perhaps peripherally involved, in Britain. It may also be significant here that no British ruler appears to have assumed the title of "king" or "emperor" prior to the Saxon revolt, or to have issued coinage. The last large-scale issue of official coinage in Britain took place around 402. Though some examples of later coins have been found, and gold and silver remained in circulation for some time, coins seemed to have reverted mainly to being stores of value and "money", as such, ceased to exist. Even though the towns - and with them, the cash economy - had already largely collapsed, issuing coinage was symbolic of sovereignty and a means of publicising the ruler's identity, concerns and values. The fact that the British respected this jealously guarded imperial prerogative on balance suggests to me that they continued to regard themselves as Roman citizens. 

We know that Germanus of Auxerre (bishop and former high-ranking government official) visited in 429, to combat the Pelagian heresy and perhaps offer help and advice on other matters (though the details from his vita appear to be padded out with pious fictions). According to Gildas, the British also appealed for help to "Agitius" (actually Aetius) during the Saxon revolt, probably in the 430s. It was only after the resulting "melancholy partition" of the country that they seem to have finally accepted they were on their own.

The "Saxon Shore" is another issue where old misconceptions are being challenged. The chain of forts is no longer seen as primarily defensive against Germanic pirates - it would have represented massively expensive overkill if that had been the case. Rather, they are seen as part of a network - which included inland forts and walled towns - for the collection, processing and onward shipment of agricultural taxes-in-kind. These mostly went to supply the Rhine Army. The term "Saxon Shore" is itself curious in a Roman context, as there is no other example of a frontier named after the enemy it was facing. The possibility has been suggested that the vast imperial estates in East Anglia (and possibly elsewhere) were settled in the C4 with Germanic foederati who were given land in exchange for military service. The existence of a Germanic substratum in the local population would also explain the later success of the Saxon revolt and the establishment of a distinctly English language and culture spreading out from the East Coast and Thames Valley.

[yellowperil]

This thread on the Ashford parliamentary constituency is taking off in some rather unexpected directions!

May I expect this debate to continue as I work my way round through Folkestone & Hythe, Dover, Thanet and Canterbury?

[finsobruce]

Mar 31, 2020 10:31:46 GMT @goodoldcause2 said:

Mar 31, 2020 8:56:21 GMT finsobruce said:

I have just re-read R C Sherriff's late play "The Long Sunset" which deals with a Romano British family left behind when the last legion departs for the continent. Worth a read if you can find a copy for a reasonable price - it took me quite a while to track one down. 

The legions didn't leave - at least, not in the way commonly assumed.

Indeed - he uses it as a dramatic device; an old friend in the Legions pops by - they think to have a chat. When he tells them he is going back, they ask him when he will return...

Other than that the way the period is treated is not so different to current thinking as set out by your good self. Oh, and a character called Arthur (with his son Gawain) make an appearance... It's really not a bad play and done properly could be quite moving.

[Deleted]

Mar 31, 2020 11:28:16 GMT yellowperil said:

This thread on the Ashford parliamentary constituency is taking off in some rather unexpected directions!

May I expect this debate to continue as I work my way round through Folkestone & Hythe, Dover, Thanet and Canterbury?

It's not impossible!

[yellowperil]

I am going to post a load of election statistics in this place- all together in one post but not in the opening post which might get a bit unwieldly. I intend to include the 4 general election results over the last decade, long enough to make the patterns clear, and the 2016 referendum and, no doubt to some people's annoyance, the last Euro-elections result. I will eventually add the aggregate vote from the last local elections, taking the average vote in the 2-member wards and remembering that there were some no-contest wards.

General Election 2019
37,276  62.1% Con (D Green)           
13,241  22.0% Lab ( D Farrell)
  6, 048  10.1% LD (A Gee-Turner)
  2, 638     4.4% GP (M Rossi)
       862     1.4% Ind (S de Sanvil)  (Note: Ms de Sanvil had previously been a council candidate for UKIP)

General Election 2017
35,318  59.0% Con (D Green)
17,840  29.8% Lab (S Gathern)
  3,101   5.2%  LD (A Gee-Turner)  
  2,218    3.7% UKIP (G O'Brien)
  1,402   2.3% GP  (M Rossi)

General Election 2015
30,094 52.8% Con (D Green)
10,798  18.8% UKIP (G O'Brien)
10,580  18,4% Lab (B.Chilton )
   3,433    6.0%  LD ( D Enever)
    2,467    4.3% GP ( M Rossi)

General Election 2010
29,878     54.1% Con (D Green)
12, 581     22.8% LD ( C Took)
  9,204       16.7% Lab (C Clark)
   2,508        4.5% UKIP (J Elener)
   1,014          1.8% GP  S Campkin)

Referendum 2016
41,472   59.4% Leave
28, 314 40.6%  Remain

European Elections 2019
 15,741  BP
   6, 558 LD
   4,300  GP
   3,436 Con 
  2,144  Lab
  1, 400 CUK
     842  UKIP
     101  UKEUP
       45   SPGB
        39 Ind
        37 Ind
         19 Ind

Local Elections 2019

10,577.5  38.9% Con
 5,257.5    19.3% AI
 4,292.5    15.8% Lab
 3,740.5     13.7% Green
 1,939.5       7.1% LD
    853.5        3.1% UKIP
    556            2.0% Ind

[yellowperil]

I have been looking at other political statistics which might help us to understand where the party political vote lies within Ashford constituency. In some ways the results from the county elections 2017 are useful but in other ways they may be misleading- they are three years old and the Ashford Rural East figures will include the (old) Saxon Shore ward, so may rather overstate Conservative strength there. They do however show the areas of traditional Labour and Lib Dem strength in Ashford South and East respectively were still alive and kicking as recently as 2017, and able to deliver wins for their respective parties in those divisions, while the other 5 divisions were safely Conservative.

The figures were:
Ashford Central : Con 2030, Lab 638, LD 366, UKIP 236, GP 198
Ashford East: LD 1426, Con 971,Lab 534, UKIP 338, GP 191
Ashford Rural East: Con 2621, LD 686, Lab 429, GP 350, UKIP 269
Ashford Rural South: Con 2405, Lab 523, LD 455, UKIP 321, GP 161
Ashford Rural West: Con 2780, LD 579, Lab 439, UKIP 349, GP 283
Ashford South: Lab 1022, Con 966, UKIP 727, LD 312, GP 146
Tenterden: Con 3383, LD 451, UkIP 360, Lab 302, GP 269.

The combined figures come out as :
Con 15,156 (55.1%) and 5 seats, with 2 second places
LD 4,275 (15.5%) and 1 seat, with 3 second places
Lab 3,887 (14.1%) and 1 seat, with 2 second places
UKIP 2,600 (9.5%)
Grn 1,598 (5.8%)

[carlton43]

DEMOGRAPHIC BASICS

This is based on the hinterland of a town sited at a crossing of the Stour with intersection of routes from Canterbury to Romney Marsh/Rye/Hastings (Cinque Ports) with route Channel Ports to County Town Maidstone and London. A nodal point below the North Downs chalk ridge and the escarpment above the marsh areas.

The settlement was an obvious point for a cattle and sheep market and that was the initial basis of growth with all the attendent sevices of law, banking, auctioneers, wheelwrights, wagon building, fence makers, timber merchants and later important Corn Exchange and major Flour Mills. The sheep market is still one of the most important in Britain

When the railways came it was a natural target for traffic and for a major junction of Channel Ports-Tonbridge-Redhill-London; Ashford-Canterbury-Minster-Ramsgate; Ashford-Rye-Hastings (branch off it for Lydd and Romney Marsh); and Ashford-Maidstone (end-on junction for Maidtone-Otford-Swanley-London but no through services until surprisingly recently).

The railway needed sidings, marshalling, servicing, storing and shedding for rolling stock. That led to maintenance works, then overhaul facilities and then a full steam loco works and a new estate to serve it termed Newtown. This brought a lot of jobs, people and skills and a strong political element in trades unions and a Labour interest that has endured virtually until now.

Other early industries were Rope Works for the Military (large presence Canterbury, Shorncliffe, Dover, Hythe and Lydd); the Navy (Dover and Chatham) and seafaring (Kent Coast); and farming, especially Hop Growing which used miles of twine. Arms manufacturing which became a major REME manufacturers, repairers and storehouse.

Post WW2 there were many schemes to have Development Town status, London 'Overspill' estates and natural growth from expansion of other trades. There had been a strong Quaker element of intermarried families of which the Hedleys were a mainstay. They ran timber merchants, Kent Wheel Works, Kent Sweet Works (Quakers love to in confectionary it seems) paper making and supplies, stationers and printing works.

Then an active County Council as well as Town Council encouraged many firms to move to Ashford or start up there. I was peripherally involved in negotiations for Rolls Royce to relocate a whole raft of their operations and it was a major set back for the town that they lost that. At about the same time, as a young clerk, I ushered a young slaughterman in to see the manager, to open a new account with his brother, to do some prepared meats for sale by van.  The card in my hand said 'to be styled Brake Bros'; I wonder what happened to them? But the town did secure the one-time major graphics aid Letraset; the largest world producer of core scent essences base, Proprietary Perfumes, a massive packet food maker Batchelors, the Energen Rolls factory, and a major PVC Pipe manufacturers. Then more and more businesses followed partly to service those first established.

Subsequently the electrification of the South East rail network led to a better integration of sevices with more through trains and greater frequencies. This in turn aided commuting into the town and out of the area up to London. For some years I was such a commuter fistly under steam from Maidstone to Ashford and later from Ashford to London on electric trains (third rail in this part of Britain). Electrification added some work to the west of the town with maintenance and shedding but nothing to compensate for loss of the locomotive works and associated trades.

But, a huge fillip then came from the opening of the Channel Tunnel and associated new lines, re-building of the rail station and enhanced high speed services into London St Pancras via Ebbsfleet and Stratford. This has put Ashford even more squarely on the modern HSR international network and drawn in substantial French interests to the town because it is so much easier and cheaper to set up, control and manage a French businesse from England. 

[Devil Wincarnate]

I find myself in Ashford reasonably often to see family, and when I first visited I was surprised at how sprawling and substantial it is

[yellowperil]

Apr 18, 2020 11:12:48 GMT carlton43 said:

DEMOGRAPHIC BASICS

This is based on the hinterland of a town sited at a crossing of the Stour with crossing of routes from Canterbury to Romney Marsh/Rye/Hastings (Cinque Ports) with route Channel Ports to County Town Maidstone and London. A nodal point below the North Downs chalk ridge and the escarpment above the marsh areas.

The settlement was an obvious point for a cattle and sheep market and that was the initial basis of growth with all the attendent sevices of law, banking, auctioneers, wheelwrights, wagon building, fence makers, timber merchants and later important Corn Exchange and major Flour Mills.

When the railways came it was a natural target for traffic and for a major junction of Channel Ports-Tonbridge-Redhill-London; Ashford-Canterbury-Minster-Ramsgate; Ashford-Rye-Hastings (branch off it for Lydd and Romney Marsh); and Ashford-Maidstone (end on junction for Maidtone-Otford-Swanley-London but no though services until surprisingly recently).

The railway needed sidings, marshalling, servicing, storing and shedding for rolling stock. That led to maintenance works, then overhaul facilities and then a full steam loco works and a new estate to serve it termed Newtown. This brought a lots of jobs, people and skills and a strong political element in trades unions and a Labour interest that has endured virtually until now.

Other early industries were Rope Works for the Military (large presence Canterbury, Shorncliffe, Dover, Hythe and Lydd); the Navy (Dover and Chatham) and seafaring (Kent Coast); and farming, especially Hop Growing which used miles of twine. Arms manufacturing which became a major REME manufacturers, repairers and storehouse.

Post WW2 there were many schemes to have Development Town status, London 'Overspill' estates and natural growth from expansion of other trades. There had been a strong Quaker element of intermarried families of which the Hedleys were a mainstay. The ran timber merchants, Kent Wheel Works, Kent Sweet Works (Quakers love to in confectionary it seems) paper making and supplies, stationers and printing works.

Then an active County Council as well as Town Council encouraged many firms to move to Ashford or start up there. I was peripherally involved in negotiations for Rolls Royce to relocate a whole raft of their operations and it was a major set back for the town that they lost that. At about the same time, as a young clerk, I ushered a young slaughterman in to see the manager to open a new account with his brother to do some prepared meats for sale by va.  The card in my hand said 'to be styled Brake Bros', I wonder what happened to them? But the town did secure the one-time major graphics aid Letraset; the largest world producer of core scent essences base Proprietary Perfumes, a massive packet food maker Batchelors, the Energen Rolls factory, and a major PVC Pipe manufacturers. Then more and more businesses followed partly to service those first established.

Subsequently the electrification of the South East rail network led to a better integration of sevices with more through trains and greater frequencies. This in turn aided commuting into the town and out of the area up to London. For some years I was such a commuter fistly under steam from Maidstone to Ashford and later from Ashford to London on electric trains (third rail in this part of Britain). Electrification added some work to the west of the town with maintenance and shedding but nothing to compensate for loss of the locomotive works and associated trades.

But, a huge fillip then came from the opening of the Channel Tunnel and associated new lines, re-building of the rail station and enhanced high speed services into London St Pancras via Ebbsfleet and Stratford. This has put Ashford even more squarely on the modern HSR international network and drawn in substantial French interests to the town because it is so much easier and cheaper to set up, control and manage a French businesses from England. 

I agree with almost all of that, but note Hedley above should read Headley- I have had dealings with many members of the Headley family for many years, not least as agent for Christine Headley when she was the first parliamentary candidate for the Ashford Lib Dems-in some ways that was the not just the first but also the most vigorous Lib Dem parliamentary fight we have had in Ashford- the Headley family were always at the forefront of Ashford liberalism.

On the RR negotiations, there was a lot of cynical talk at the time  that Rolls Royce were never really serious contenders but were talked up in order to get a rather unsuitable industrial site made available in an area of high landscape value , which then fell not to RR but to Batchelor foods, a business which though welcome did not offer the same high-end engineering jobs that had been promised. I don't know if you can comment on that.  The rail engineering tradition was of course maintained by the arrival first of Bombardier and later Hitachi, though I agree nothing compensated for the loss of the old BR works.  On the perfumery front PPL have been replaced by Givaudin (their direct successor) and Coty as major employers in the town. 

[carlton43]

Apr 19, 2020 8:52:01 GMT yellowperil said:

Apr 18, 2020 11:12:48 GMT carlton43 said:

DEMOGRAPHIC BASICS

This is based on the hinterland of a town sited at a crossing of the Stour with crossing of routes from Canterbury to Romney Marsh/Rye/Hastings (Cinque Ports) with route Channel Ports to County Town Maidstone and London. A nodal point below the North Downs chalk ridge and the escarpment above the marsh areas.

The settlement was an obvious point for a cattle and sheep market and that was the initial basis of growth with all the attendent sevices of law, banking, auctioneers, wheelwrights, wagon building, fence makers, timber merchants and later important Corn Exchange and major Flour Mills.

When the railways came it was a natural target for traffic and for a major junction of Channel Ports-Tonbridge-Redhill-London; Ashford-Canterbury-Minster-Ramsgate; Ashford-Rye-Hastings (branch off it for Lydd and Romney Marsh); and Ashford-Maidstone (end on junction for Maidtone-Otford-Swanley-London but no though services until surprisingly recently).

The railway needed sidings, marshalling, servicing, storing and shedding for rolling stock. That led to maintenance works, then overhaul facilities and then a full steam loco works and a new estate to serve it termed Newtown. This brought a lots of jobs, people and skills and a strong political element in trades unions and a Labour interest that has endured virtually until now.

Other early industries were Rope Works for the Military (large presence Canterbury, Shorncliffe, Dover, Hythe and Lydd); the Navy (Dover and Chatham) and seafaring (Kent Coast); and farming, especially Hop Growing which used miles of twine. Arms manufacturing which became a major REME manufacturers, repairers and storehouse.

Post WW2 there were many schemes to have Development Town status, London 'Overspill' estates and natural growth from expansion of other trades. There had been a strong Quaker element of intermarried families of which the Hedleys were a mainstay. The ran timber merchants, Kent Wheel Works, Kent Sweet Works (Quakers love to in confectionary it seems) paper making and supplies, stationers and printing works.

Then an active County Council as well as Town Council encouraged many firms to move to Ashford or start up there. I was peripherally involved in negotiations for Rolls Royce to relocate a whole raft of their operations and it was a major set back for the town that they lost that. At about the same time, as a young clerk, I ushered a young slaughterman in to see the manager to open a new account with his brother to do some prepared meats for sale by va.  The card in my hand said 'to be styled Brake Bros', I wonder what happened to them? But the town did secure the one-time major graphics aid Letraset; the largest world producer of core scent essences base Proprietary Perfumes, a massive packet food maker Batchelors, the Energen Rolls factory, and a major PVC Pipe manufacturers. Then more and more businesses followed partly to service those first established.

Subsequently the electrification of the South East rail network led to a better integration of sevices with more through trains and greater frequencies. This in turn aided commuting into the town and out of the area up to London. For some years I was such a commuter fistly under steam from Maidstone to Ashford and later from Ashford to London on electric trains (third rail in this part of Britain). Electrification added some work to the west of the town with maintenance and shedding but nothing to compensate for loss of the locomotive works and associated trades.

But, a huge fillip then came from the opening of the Channel Tunnel and associated new lines, re-building of the rail station and enhanced high speed services into London St Pancras via Ebbsfleet and Stratford. This has put Ashford even more squarely on the modern HSR international network and drawn in substantial French interests to the town because it is so much easier and cheaper to set up, control and manage a French businesses from England. 

I agree with almost all of that, but note Hedley above should read Headley- I have had dealings with many members of the Headley family for many years, not least as agent for Christine Headley when she was the first parliamentary candidate for the Ashford Lib Dems-in some ways that was the not just the first but also the most vigorous Lib Dem parliamentary fight we have had in Ashford- the Headley family were always at the forefront of Ashford liberalism.

On the RR negotiations, there was a lot of cynical talk at the time  that Rolls Royce were never really serious contenders but were talked up in order to get a rather unsuitable industrial site made available in an area of high landscape value , which then fell not to RR but to Batchelor foods, a business which though welcome did not offer the same high-end engineering jobs that had been promised. I don't know if you can comment on that.  The rail engineering tradition was of course maintained by the arrival first of Bombardier and later Hitachi, though I agree nothing compensated for the loss of the old BR works.  On the perfumery front PPL have been replaced by Givaudin (their direct successor) and Coty as major employers in the town. 

Yes, indeed, one can correct and fine tune virtually forever on these matters. 

I thought my concept framework was a model others might care to adopt, as to how the commerce and industry developed and changed over the years.  I last lived in the South East nearly 50-years ago and wrote this up entirely from my memory without any research at all.  I left out a number of firms including Rimmel the major cosmetics firm that grew on the back of making all the cosmetics for Woolworths, then went up-market after Woolworths declined and ceased trading.

The Rolls Royce attempt was genuine, especially on the part of the Chairman who wished to live there and was friends with a number of senior Conservatives and had served with my manager (a full colonel) in the army.  National politics and internal Rolls Royce politics, and trades union pressures, all allied to defeat the move; much wanted by sales/marketing and many younger executives who valued proximity to London and Continent. 

The Batchelors machinations were separate but organised by another major industrial group even bigger than Rolls Royce and with more political and trade clout at the time.  The development site in question could not be in any way described as of ' high landscape value' and was on poor rather wet land of low agricultural use and in parts a bit scruffy.  That point was 'manufactured' as a canard by Nimby elements in town that had always been a bit of a hindrance and had tried to stop rail development as well.

[yellowperil]

Yes it's all interesting stuff as far as I am concerned and yet if you are offering it up as a model for this particular thread I would need to see what others think how much of it is appropriate to an almanac entry for a twenty-first century constituency - all the stuff about long forgotten products like Letraset and Energen!I'm as guilty as anyone of talking up the old history, and there's no harm at all in any of it going into thread. I don't necessarily think it should make the cut into a final almanac entry, whoever does a final editing job to produce a concise entry for a constituency of the 2020's must recognise an Ashford now almost totally unrecognisable as the mid-twentieth century place we both knew so well. I have to say when you admit you write from the point of view of someone who had been away for some 50 years and had done no extra research,tbh I think that showed!

I'm interested in your view of the RR question, and accept you have more inside information from the time than I had. I accept Unilever was an organisation with a lot of clout of their own, but I would disagree about the site landscape value. The land on the other side of the road is now of course a nature reserve /leisure area of some importance, the Conningsbrook Lakes, co-existing with substantial new housing and the Julie Rose stadium.

[carlton43]

Apr 19, 2020 13:06:15 GMT yellowperil said:

Yes it's all interesting stuff as far as I am concerned and yet if you are offering it up as a model for this particular thread I would need to see what others think how much of it is appropriate to an almanac entry for a twenty-first century constituency - all the stuff about long forgotten products like Letraset and Energen!I'm as guilty as anyone of talking up the old history, and there's no harm at all in any of it going into thread. I don't necessarily think it should make the cut into a final almanac entry, whoever does a final editing job to produce a concise entry for a constituency of the 2020's must recognise an Ashford now almost totally unrecognisable as the mid-twentieth century place we both knew so well. I have to say when you admit you write from the point of view of someone who had been away for some 50 years and had done no extra research,tbh I think that showed!

I'm interested in your view of the RR question, and accept you have more inside information from the time than I had. I accept Unilever was an organisation with a lot of clout of their own, but I would disagree about the site landscape value. The land on the other side of the road is now of course a nature reserve /leisure area of some importance, the Conningsbrook Lakes, co-existing with substantial new housing and the Julie Rose stadium.

I am on record as specifically NOT offering up as a model of or for anything at all.  These columns are by their nature 'working documents' towards a greater whole, and I saw a need for what I believe to be the 'essence of place' and the reason why a place is as it is now.  The politics follows upon experience, lifestyles, local history, noteable families, dominent interests, dominent industries, good fortune and major errors made.

The silting up of harbours and the retreat of sea at Romney and Rye; the failure to secure the railway mainline at Stoke and Maidstone; the working out of tin, iron and coal in many communities; the early innovation of canals and mills; the presence of major religious, academic or military establishments;  all had a place in the rich panoply of local development.  A constituency represents a history of all it has been quite as much as what is there now; thus the speaking of Liberal and Radical tradition. 

[yellowperil]

Apr 18, 2020 22:59:28 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I find myself in Ashford reasonably often to see family, and when I first visited I was surprised at how sprawling and substantial it is

I was wondering where in Ashford was your family connection and which bits in particular provoked that "sprawling and substantial" comment- always interested to get instant reactions to the place from outsiders. As a former chairman of the Local Plan through a key period of its development I may have to take some responsibility for the "sprawl", even if that was what we were desperately trying to avoid

[Devil Wincarnate]

Apr 20, 2020 9:16:46 GMT yellowperil said:

Apr 18, 2020 22:59:28 GMT Devil Wincarnate said:

I find myself in Ashford reasonably often to see family, and when I first visited I was surprised at how sprawling and substantial it is

I was wondering where in Ashford was your family connection and which bits in particular provoked that "sprawling and substantial" comment- always interested to get instant reactions to the place from outsiders. As a former chairman of the Local Plan through a key period of its development I may have to take some responsibility for the "sprawl", even if that was what we were desperately trying to avoid

It wasn't a criticism, it's just that in my head Ashford was basically like Crewe or Didcot, huddled round a station. I was surprised to see it was something completely different. We've got family who live on one of the new estates, but have only been there a few years.

[Devil Wincarnate]

The bit that made me think "sprawl" was past the motorway, around the John Lewis and the estates up there.