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Post by therealriga on May 21, 2020 18:38:16 GMT
If an area has a surfeit of under-18s or foreign nationals, I don't see that as any reason to give the British/Commonwealth adults of that area greater voting power. We shouldn't have 50,000 voters in one seat and 80,000 in another just because there are 100,000 people in both. MPs do more than just act as casework processors, to be given equal-sized seats based on equal-sized casework loads; they also have a representative role and indeed there is an argument there should be more focus on the latter than the former. But in that representative role they are representing the under-18s, not just people on the register, and their votes on policy will arguably have more effect on the lives and long term future of 15-year-olds than they will of the very senior citizens who are, sad to say, close to the end. |
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J.G.Harston
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Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 21, 2020 18:40:05 GMT
I dispute belvoir 's argument fundamentally as it begs the question: it assumes that equal representation must mean equal numbers of electors. To that I say: Oh no it doesn't. Equal representation means equal numbers of people. Shirely equal representation means equal numbers of those who can pick the representatives. If 50% of my area are foreigners, then on the "equal people" principal, I have a two-fold advantage over my neighbours who have to try to get (a winning proportion of) all their residents to vote for them, I only need to get (a winning proportion of) half of them. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 18:45:24 GMT
The British Isles are not a rectangle, you can't divide them equally.
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J.G.Harston
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Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 21, 2020 18:54:34 GMT
The British Isles are not a rectangle, you can't divide them equally. You can divide a triangle equally. And a circle. And a nonagon. |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on May 21, 2020 20:47:35 GMT
I dispute belvoir 's argument fundamentally as it begs the question: it assumes that equal representation must mean equal numbers of electors. To that I say: Oh no it doesn't. Equal representation means equal numbers of people. Shirely equal representation means equal numbers of those who can pick the representatives. If 50% of my area are foreigners, then on the "equal people" principal, I have a two-fold advantage over my neighbours who have to try to get (a winning proportion of) all their residents to vote for them, I only need to get (a winning proportion of) half of them. Well, no, because a representative represents all of their constituents, not just those who can or do vote for them. |
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jamie
Top Poster
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Post by jamie on May 21, 2020 22:16:20 GMT
Silly question - Is it possible to identify British citizens aged over 18? If so, use that. If not, use the electorate figures that existed on the previous general election.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on May 21, 2020 22:23:44 GMT
Silly question - Is it possible to identify British citizens aged over 18? If so, use that. If not, use the electorate figures that existed on the previous general election. Given a map will be used for 10+ years, it seems shocking to exclude people under 18. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 22, 2020 1:03:29 GMT
Silly question - Is it possible to identify British citizens aged over 18? If so, use that. If not, use the electorate figures that existed on the previous general election. It was on the Censuses before 1922. On current Census there's a "Age" box, but doesn't ask nationality - and the published data doesn't list birth place. The published data lists "Passport held" - from that you can get a close approximation to citizenship. (note: the EU figure was only applicable for this study as it was a local election review) See mdfs.net/maps/Sheffield/lgbr2013/evidence/Registration.docand mdfs.net/maps/Sheffield/lgbr2013/evidence/Registration.xlsThis is easily addressed by making future published Census and published data having a clear "Nationality" box. |
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,842
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 22, 2020 1:04:56 GMT
Shirely equal representation means equal numbers of those who can pick the representatives. If 50% of my area are foreigners, then on the "equal people" principal, I have a two-fold advantage over my neighbours who have to try to get (a winning proportion of) all their residents to vote for them, I only need to get (a winning proportion of) half of them. Well, no, because a representative represents all of their constituents, not just those who can or do vote for them. But if they're not electors, they're not consituents, they're constituents' children, or they're foreigners, or something else. They may be residents, but that doesn't make them constituents. |
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Post by johnloony on May 22, 2020 2:25:37 GMT
Well, no, because a representative represents all of their constituents, not just those who can or do vote for them. But if they're not electors, they're not consituents, they're constituents' children, or they're foreigners, or something else. They may be residents, but that doesn't make them constituents. All people living in a constituency are constituents of the MP, regardless of whether they are electors, children, unregistered adults, lunatics, prisoners, foreigners or whatever. Equality of constituencies (within a permitted range of +/-5%) is measured by the number of registered electors. |
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Post by andrewteale on May 22, 2020 11:40:20 GMT
The British Isles are not a rectangle, you can't divide them equally. The Ham Sandwich theorem says otherwise. |
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 22, 2020 11:47:40 GMT
The British Isles are not a rectangle, you can't divide them equally. This might be relevant (if still wrong) if we were going to divide the country by area rather than population or electorate. As it is the only person who has ever advocated doing that is johnloony |
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Post by minionofmidas on May 22, 2020 17:13:00 GMT
The British Isles are not a rectangle, you can't divide them equally. This might be relevant (if still wrong) if we were going to divide the country by area rather than population or electorate. As it is the only person who has ever advocated doing that is johnloonystill not going far enough imo. Should be One (inhabited) island, one Vote (constituency). |
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 23, 2020 15:12:12 GMT
The British Isles are not a rectangle, you can't divide them equally. The Ham Sandwich theorem says otherwise. Did someone say Ham Sandwich? What's it Worth? |
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Post by greenhert on May 29, 2020 11:35:59 GMT
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Post by John Chanin on May 29, 2020 11:49:27 GMT
Why does Bone want a separate quota for Northern Ireland? I’ve never seen this suggested anywhere. |
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Post by Wisconsin on May 29, 2020 11:57:15 GMT
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Post by 🏴☠️ Neath West 🏴☠️ on May 29, 2020 12:15:28 GMT
Many of them look very sensible ideas. Of course they have no chance of becoming law, as Mr Bone and Sir Christopher are well aware. But it raises the profile of a good many issues. |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on May 29, 2020 12:21:15 GMT
Given no constituencies can cross national boundaries, the idea for creating separate national quotas is to give more flexibility on constituencies. Because if the NI allocation is 17.5 rounded up to 18, then the actual room for maneuvre on each individual seat would be much less if they had to be within 5% on the UK quota.
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Post by Wisconsin on May 29, 2020 12:24:23 GMT
I'd love a pan Irish Sea seat. I nominate Bangor & Bangor.
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