Benn Holds his seat in '83

[tomc]

I expect this has been discussed before but I was watching 'Labour: The Wilderness Years' on Youtube and I wondered if Benn could have pitched for the leadership or deputy leadership again after the GE defeat.  One might have thought that the defeat would naturally see the return of the right but it was clear from the interviews in the programme that the left of the Labour Party didn't necessarily see the result as a defeat for their faction as much as an issue of presentation.

Would Labour have collapsed completely as people like Hattersley feared? Or fallen behind the SDP?

This period is immediately before my personal experience so it's an oddly fascinating era for me.

[Deleted]

This is before my time too. However, I've seen the documentary too and read around the subject. Benn lost the seat after a boundary review; originally he wanted to contest another seat in Bristol where he had a better chance of holding the seat, however, failed to be selected due to members of the NEC like John Golding who spent much of the 83 election ensuring as few Bennites could get selected as possible including Benn himself. John was successful preventing not only Benn being selected but also Ken Livingston and Paul Boateng. John was able to prevent Ken and Paul being shortlisted but had to go to Bristol and campaign for the other MP to get selected instead of Benn. The MP for Livingston offered his seat to Benn to ensure he could stand for the leadership which he dismissed almost immediately.

Given all this the better question might be what would have happened had Benn been selected for the seat Labour held in Bristol or if he had stood in Livingston.

Benn used to be a moderate Gaitskellite promoted to Postmaster General by Harold Wilson for his technical ability, charisma and television friendly. Benn whose background was in television featured in Labour broadcasts very early on for these very reasons. Benn moved to left during the 70s as a secretary of state for energy and then culture. Denis Healy and Hattersly spoke very well of Benn and said he could have easily been leader and had he been an ambitious man would have been. Benn was often described as the first leader of the Left their best orator since Nye Bevan. It's impossible to know what would have happened, however, the Guardian did write an alternative history with Benn as leader but I can't find it share

Big criticism of the Labour Party was the inability to adapt to advertising in the late 20th century. The Labour Party had employed an advertising company during the 80s and every idea they had Denis Healy would shoot down. The question is whether Benn's charisma and TV friendly approach would have worked for advertisement politics in the 80s. He did suffer from quite a serious illness toward the end of the 80s which left him with some paralysis and a limp. I don't know how much this affect him and if it was significant enough to make full time leadership difficult as well.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

A few factual corrections.

Benn tried to move to Bristol South (a very small part of his previous seat) but his defeat in the selection there was not really to do with Golding. It was instead because Mike Cocks had seen Benn coming and made sure he had support in the CLP.

The new Bristol East was actually better for Labour than Benn's current Bristol South East so he had no reason to complain about the boundary changes.

Paul Boateng was selected for Labour-held seat in 1983. Ken Livingstone attempted to deselect Reg Freeson in Brent East but the sudden calling of the election gave the NEC power to intervene; it's not certain whether he would have succeeded but at any rate Livingstone had no automatic right to be selected instead of the sitting MP.

There was no sitting MP for Livingston - it was a new created constituency likely to have a Labour majority.

Benn's big move to the left occurred during the 1970-74 period of opposition, and was clear before Wilson formed the government.

Benn was diagnosed with Guillain-Barré syndrome in 1981 during the Deputy Leadership contest.

[Deleted]

Dec 28, 2019 13:47:37 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

A few factual corrections.

Benn tried to move to Bristol South (a very small part of his previous seat) but his defeat in the selection there was not really to do with Golding. It was instead because Mike Cocks had seen Benn coming and made sure he had support in the CLP.

The new Bristol East was actually better for Labour than Benn's current Bristol South East so he had no reason to complain about the boundary changes.

Paul Boateng was selected for Labour-held seat in 1983. Ken Livingstone attempted to deselect Reg Freeson in Brent East but the sudden calling of the election gave the NEC power to intervene; it's not certain whether he would have succeeded but at any rate Livingstone had no automatic right to be selected instead of the sitting MP.

There was no sitting MP for Livingston - it was a new created constituency likely to have a Labour majority.

Benn's big move to the left occurred during the 1970-74 period of opposition, and was clear before Wilson formed the government.

Benn was diagnosed with Guillain-Barré syndrome in 1981 during the Deputy Leadership contest.

cheers for that. I got most my information about tge selections from Hammer of the Left so I'll have a quick reread next time and see where i was confused

[Pete Whitehead]

Dec 28, 2019 14:08:57 GMT @priceofdawn said:

Dec 28, 2019 13:47:37 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

A few factual corrections.

Benn tried to move to Bristol South (a very small part of his previous seat) but his defeat in the selection there was not really to do with Golding. It was instead because Mike Cocks had seen Benn coming and made sure he had support in the CLP.

The new Bristol East was actually better for Labour than Benn's current Bristol South East so he had no reason to complain about the boundary changes.

Paul Boateng was selected for Labour-held seat in 1983. Ken Livingstone attempted to deselect Reg Freeson in Brent East but the sudden calling of the election gave the NEC power to intervene; it's not certain whether he would have succeeded but at any rate Livingstone had no automatic right to be selected instead of the sitting MP.

There was no sitting MP for Livingston - it was a new created constituency likely to have a Labour majority.

Benn's big move to the left occurred during the 1970-74 period of opposition, and was clear before Wilson formed the government.

Benn was diagnosed with Guillain-Barré syndrome in 1981 during the Deputy Leadership contest.

cheers for that. I got most my information about tge selections from Hammer of the Left so I'll have a quick reread next time and see where i was confused

It is a myth that was peddled by Benn and his supporters that he was defeated by boundary changes which has been corrected numerous times on this forum and elsewhere but persists with those who find it convenient. Bristol East as drawn ahead of the 1983 election was a safer Labour seat than Benn's Bristol South East where the majority was less than 2000 in 1979 and would undoubtedly have been lost in 1983 had it still existed

[greenhert]

And by a much wider margin as well; Bristol South East may have also stayed in Conservative hands until 1997, not 1992 had it existed then. The abolition of Bristol North East (which may reappear in some form in the future, potentially) indirectly helped Labour in the long-term as in addition to creating a more Labour-friendly successor to Bristol South East it also weakened the Conservative stronghold of Bristol West next door.

[Deleted]

As i say though I read that in John Goldings book. Perhaps he was trying to insinuate he had more to do with Benns down fall than he really did or perhaps i misread it

[johnloony]

The short answer is that it wouldn't have made much difference. Benn would not have been a candidate for the leadership, or would have done poorly if he had.

[polaris]

Dec 28, 2019 19:16:18 GMT johnloony said:

The short answer is that it wouldn't have made much difference. Benn would not have been a candidate for the leadership, or would have done poorly if he had.

Agreed - I think he would have been damaged goods even if he had held his seat.

[Deleted]

I think the point of divergence is the 1981 Labour Deputy Leadership Election not the 1983 General Election.