ilerda
Conservative
Posts: 1,042
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Post by ilerda on Jul 22, 2021 11:15:27 GMT
Strangely enough a couple of days ago when I was looking for some 'notional results' maps I found this (obviously in the wrong folder) Not sure if I have posted this before or when it was originally created. I think I would move some of the southern parts of Selby district into Doncaster and/or Wakefield and the eastern wards into the East Riding but I think the fundamentals of this plan are sound. Of course this ridiculous North Yorkshire scheme now means that the whole of the Yorkshire and Humber region will be made up of single tier councils (joining the North East where that has been the case for some time). I favour Unitary councils everywhere but not in the ad hoc, piecemeal, inconsistent and fuckwitted way in which it is being done Whilst there are some merits, there are also some very strange decisions. Shrinking Leeds and Bradford to their urban core, but then lumping in the suburban areas with other large towns they have very limited connection too. Why would Keighley be more at home in a Halifax borough than it is in Bradford? Why is a significantly expanded Wakefield fine, but Leeds has to be reduced to the core urban area? Putting Stocksbridge into Barnsley is laughable - not just poor for community ties but also incredibly impractical in terms of providing public services. And again, why can Barnsley cover vast rural and suburban swathes, but Sheffield can't? The obsession with restoribg historic county boundaries for administrative purposes is something I'll never really understand. County identity is not really defined by who puts the logo on your council tax bill or your wheelie bins, and personally I would prefer to have a council administering an efficient and coherent area rather than trying to use it as a proxy for a historic county culture war. If you're so determined to restore Yorkshire to its historic boundaries, I presume you'd be in favour of returning all the bits of Sheffield that used to be in Derbyshire back out of the county?
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European Lefty
Labour
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Posts: 5,666
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Post by European Lefty on Jul 22, 2021 11:54:45 GMT
There would be a decent argument for a Keighley & Skipton (South Craven?) district of North Yorkshire
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 22, 2021 13:10:19 GMT
Or even a Keighley & Skipton district of West Yorkshire - Skipton is zoned within the West Yorkshire Metro Rail map, after all. It'd be on the small side, but not much smaller than Calderdale.
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Post by hullenedge on Jul 22, 2021 13:46:29 GMT
Or even a Keighley & Skipton district of West Yorkshire - Skipton is zoned within the West Yorkshire Metro Rail map, after all. It'd be on the small side, but not much smaller than Calderdale. Derek Senior would be very pleased with your suggestion. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Senior
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Post by greenhert on Jul 22, 2021 17:52:19 GMT
Those recent announced local government changes will leave Lancashire as the only county north of the Humber/Mersey with a county council (for the time being anyway).
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European Lefty
Labour
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Post by European Lefty on Jul 22, 2021 18:14:07 GMT
Those recent announced local government changes will leave Lancashire as the only county north of the Humber/Mersey with a county council (for the time being anyway). Northumberland and Co. Durham both have county councils
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,266
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Post by peterl on Jul 22, 2021 18:42:27 GMT
Those recent announced local government changes will leave Lancashire as the only county north of the Humber/Mersey with a county council (for the time being anyway). Devon and Gloucestershire will be the only left in the south west. It is interesting how unitarisation seems to have affected some areas more than others, the south east and east have hardly any other than the city unitaries set up in the mid 90s.
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Post by andrewp on Jul 22, 2021 18:46:47 GMT
Those recent announced local government changes will leave Lancashire as the only county north of the Humber/Mersey with a county council (for the time being anyway). Devon and Gloucestershire will be the only left in the south west. It is interesting how unitarisation seems to have affected some areas more than others, the south east and east have hardly any other than the city unitaries set up in the mid 90s. It tends to be the smaller counties that have gone. I guess the smallest counties left will be East Sussex and Warwickshire, Gloucestershire and Cambridgeshire Is there any realistic prospect of unitaries everywhere at some point in the future.
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Post by greenhert on Jul 22, 2021 18:47:26 GMT
Those recent announced local government changes will leave Lancashire as the only county north of the Humber/Mersey with a county council (for the time being anyway). Northumberland and Co. Durham both have county councils Those have been "unitarised" so they do not count. County councils have underlying districts and boroughs.
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Post by greenhert on Jul 22, 2021 19:09:11 GMT
Devon and Gloucestershire will be the only left in the south west. It is interesting how unitarisation seems to have affected some areas more than others, the south east and east have hardly any other than the city unitaries set up in the mid 90s. It tends to be the smaller counties that have gone. I guess the smallest counties left will be East Sussex and Warwickshire, Gloucestershire and Cambridgeshire Is there any realistic prospect of unitaries everywhere at some point in the future. It is certainly trending that way.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,719
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 22, 2021 21:10:09 GMT
It fits better, and has better connections with, East Yorkshire. It certainly does not belong in North Yorkshire. I think one objective way of trying to measure this is to look where the buses go from Selby. These should reflect local travel flows which are likely to reflect community ties. I've excluded all routes which remain entirely within the Selby council area, and then added up how many buses leave the town for various destinations every day. ... There are 61 buses per day to York, none to Harrogate (the only neighbouring North Yorkshire County Council district), 6 per day to Leeds, 5 per day to Wakefield, 12 to Doncaster, and 18 per day to East Yorkshire. That to me suggests York as a fairly obvious partner, while East Yorkshire is passable but not quite as good. But the lack of connections to Harrogate makes the planned single North Yorkshire unitary look particularly ridiculous. If you were going to put Selby into the same authority as York, you'd put it in along with a load of other places. Not make a SelYorkBy authority, but some sort of Greater York with York at the centre, not York as half of it. Could even call it York-somethingorother, what's a word for a large area based around a central town/city, Yorksssshhhhssomething.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,719
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 22, 2021 21:13:10 GMT
Yep. The two options were: North Yorkshire + York, or West North Yorkshire + East North Yorkshire linkI suggested West North Yorkshire (Craven, Hambleton, Harrogate and Richmondshire) and East North Yorkshire (Ryedale and Scarborough), with York remaining separate and Selby going into East Yorkshire, but sadly that option was not considered. Ditto. My map is basically what I recommended.
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European Lefty
Labour
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Posts: 5,666
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Post by European Lefty on Jul 22, 2021 21:21:04 GMT
Or even a Keighley & Skipton district of West Yorkshire - Skipton is zoned within the West Yorkshire Metro Rail map, after all. It'd be on the small side, but not much smaller than Calderdale. I guess it depends on how many outlying areas you included - if you'd included Ilkley and the Worth Valley it would probably be alright although personally I certainly wouldn’t include Ilkley
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,719
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 22, 2021 21:24:43 GMT
Those recent announced local government changes will leave Lancashire as the only county north of the Humber/Mersey with a county council (for the time being anyway). Northumberland and Co. Durham both have county councils And North Yorkshire would have a county council.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 13,719
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Post by J.G.Harston on Jul 22, 2021 21:29:04 GMT
Northumberland and Co. Durham both have county councils Those have been "unitarised" so they do not count. County councils have underlying districts and boroughs. No, county councils are councils that cover a county.
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European Lefty
Labour
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Post by European Lefty on Jul 22, 2021 21:37:58 GMT
Northumberland and Co. Durham both have county councils Those have been "unitarised" so they do not count. County councils have underlying districts and boroughs. No, *counties* have districts underneath them. Most counties (all non-metropolitan ones) also have a county council, as do some unitary authorities
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Post by greenhert on Jul 22, 2021 22:02:22 GMT
Those have been "unitarised" so they do not count. County councils have underlying districts and boroughs. No, *counties* have districts underneath them. Most counties (all non-metropolitan ones) also have a county council, as do some unitary authorities Some unitary authorities are de facto county councils but are not classifiable as such officially. For example, Herefordshire UA is called County of Herefordshire Council not Herefordshire County Council.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 23, 2021 9:25:11 GMT
If a unitary authority has divisions rather than wards then it's a county council. Though I confess I'm not clear why they bother maintaining the distinction between unitary wards and unitary divisions when they're functionally identical.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 23, 2021 9:41:18 GMT
There is technically supposed to be a difference between a unitary county and a unitary district, but other than naming of its electoral divisions I've been unable to find anything which is actually different.
Rutland and Herefordshire are unitary districts. Isle of Wight is a unitary county.
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Post by islington on Jul 23, 2021 9:44:15 GMT
There is technically supposed to be a difference between a unitary county and a unitary district, but other than naming of its electoral divisions I've been unable to find anything which is actually different. Rutland and Herefordshire are unitary districts. Isle of Wight is a unitary county. Which is interesting because for 'traditional county' enthusiasts (of whom I am not one), Rutland and Herefordshire qualify but the IoW is merely part of Hampshire.
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