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Post by John Chanin on May 7, 2024 19:14:42 GMT
There are a lot of reviews taking place not because there is a need to do so, but because it's over 20 years since the last one. Unsurprisingly this means little change. Dudley still holds the prize for the most pointless and the least changes.
Still there has been some consternation where the LGBCE has insisted on 3 member wards where a council elects by thirds. Epping Forest was really pissed off. They could have course gone to all outs, where the LGBCE is very happy to have different sized wards.....
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Post by thejedi on May 7, 2024 19:19:24 GMT
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 7, 2024 20:58:21 GMT
Ditto Barnsley. A few tweaks here and there but nothing substantial. I’m not sure what they could have done with Wakefield though to be fair, other than go unitary with (say) 50 wards with different numbers of members… Might generate some more competitive seats and a balance on the council that is better for Wakefield… doesn’t do Labour any favours holding 90% of the seats. No serious opposition… Lib Dems confined to one ward, the three Tories split across three. Wakefield *is* a unitary.
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Post by Ron Swanson on May 7, 2024 21:23:26 GMT
I’m not sure what they could have done with Wakefield though to be fair, other than go unitary with (say) 50 wards with different numbers of members… Might generate some more competitive seats and a balance on the council that is better for Wakefield… doesn’t do Labour any favours holding 90% of the seats. No serious opposition… Lib Dems confined to one ward, the three Tories split across three. Wakefield *is* a unitary. I thought it was a metro borough, with 3 seats per ward… You know what I’m trying to say… copy the system that Liverpool have basically, or so many other places that draw natural rather than made up ward boundaries and allocate seats to suit. Tory/Independent voters in places like Wrenthorpe, Stanley, Walton… and the like aren’t going to have much chance of getting what they vote for under the current system, likewise in a normal year Labour voters in Agbrigg, for instance.
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YL
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Post by YL on May 7, 2024 21:54:42 GMT
Wakefield *is* a unitary. I thought it was a metro borough, with 3 seats per ward… You know what I’m trying to say… copy the system that Liverpool have basically, or so many other places that draw natural rather than made up ward boundaries and allocate seats to suit. Tory/Independent voters in places like Wrenthorpe, Stanley, Walton… and the like aren’t going to have much chance of getting what they vote for under the current system, likewise in a normal year Labour voters in Agbrigg, for instance. I think you mean moving to all up elections, which allows wards with different numbers of councillors, like Liverpool, Doncaster, Rotherham and Birmingham have done, but all of those are still otherwise Metropolitan Districts, just like Wakefield is. (In fact the LGBCE is allowed to draw one or two member wards in a thirds council, but there is a strong presumption against them doing so and mostly they don't.) thejedi: www.lgbce.org.uk/all-reviews/wakefield
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Post by thejedi on May 7, 2024 22:08:35 GMT
I thought it was a metro borough, with 3 seats per ward… You know what I’m trying to say… copy the system that Liverpool have basically, or so many other places that draw natural rather than made up ward boundaries and allocate seats to suit. Tory/Independent voters in places like Wrenthorpe, Stanley, Walton… and the like aren’t going to have much chance of getting what they vote for under the current system, likewise in a normal year Labour voters in Agbrigg, for instance. I think you mean moving to all up elections, which allows wards with different numbers of councillors, like Liverpool, Doncaster, Rotherham and Birmingham have done, but all of those are still otherwise Metropolitan Districts, just like Wakefield is. (In fact the LGBCE is allowed to draw one or two member wards in a thirds council, but there is a strong presumption against them doing so and mostly they don't.) thejedi: www.lgbce.org.uk/all-reviews/wakefieldThanks YL. The only change I can see is Notton going into Wakefield South, which will help the Tories. Notton leaving, Crofton, Ryhill and Walton will help out Labour. Have I missed any more changes?
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Post by gwynthegriff on May 7, 2024 22:21:11 GMT
I thought it was a metro borough, with 3 seats per ward… You know what I’m trying to say… copy the system that Liverpool have basically, or so many other places that draw natural rather than made up ward boundaries and allocate seats to suit. Tory/Independent voters in places like Wrenthorpe, Stanley, Walton… and the like aren’t going to have much chance of getting what they vote for under the current system, likewise in a normal year Labour voters in Agbrigg, for instance. I think you mean moving to all up elections, which allows wards with different numbers of councillors, like Liverpool, Doncaster, Rotherham and Birmingham have done, but all of those are still otherwise Metropolitan Districts, just like Wakefield is. (In fact the LGBCE is allowed to draw one or two member wards in a thirds council, but there is a strong presumption against them doing so and mostly they don't.) thejedi: www.lgbce.org.uk/all-reviews/wakefieldFrom 1974 to 2009 we had election by thirds in Crewe & Nantwich with single, two and three member wards (generally reflecting density of population). It worked well. And there were 19 seats up each time, just not the same 19!
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on May 8, 2024 0:59:36 GMT
Wakefield *is* a unitary. I thought it was a metro borough, with 3 seats per ward… You know what I’m trying to say… copy the system that Liverpool have basically, or so many other places that draw natural rather than made up ward boundaries and allocate seats to suit. Tory/Independent voters in places like Wrenthorpe, Stanley, Walton… and the like aren’t going to have much chance of getting what they vote for under the current system, likewise in a normal year Labour voters in Agbrigg, for instance. Yes, metropolitan councils *are* unitary councils. Liverpool is also a metropolitan council, and thereby is a unitary council. No council can draw "natural" wards as wards are required to equalise elector numbers, so outside miraculous situations, ward boundaries are forced to depart from natural boundaries, even where the people drawing them up to their best to avoid doing so as much as possible.
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Post by markgoodair on May 8, 2024 8:09:57 GMT
Knottingley remains exactly the same which suits us down to the ground. My own ward loses about a dozen houses on the Island where the Navigation pub is located so in real terms makes absolutely no difference .
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Post by devolutionist on May 8, 2024 10:08:23 GMT
The only maps I've ever really studied in depth are Ponte North & Ponte South, and the change looks minimal. Ponte North has basically been given the Carleton Glen estate which isn't very well to do. Probably good news for the Conservative Party in the often marginal Ponte South in the longer term, if they can detoxify, just by applying a broad brush to the social classification of a large chunk of the people who live in the lost territory (not sure if politics is that black and white anymore though). Won't change much or anything in Ponte North. Bit of a strange one really, looks like they may have increased the size of Ponte North and decreased the size of Ponte South, but I thought that Ponte North was the larger of the two by population! Can't see any change at all to the Knottingley boundaries, so will remain a Lib Dem stronghold.
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Post by ArmchairCritic on May 10, 2024 22:06:30 GMT
It makes sense to move BroadCut out of H&SO though it should go into Rural Ward, not South. I also agree that putting South Ossett into the Ossett ward would not be very practical.
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Post by carolus on May 10, 2024 22:15:05 GMT
Consultations open: East Riding (can we fix some of those ridiculously big wards?) It really does seem pretty meritless to have big three member wards when the council has all up elections - just cut them into three!
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Post by andrewteale on May 11, 2024 0:37:10 GMT
Consultations open: East Riding (can we fix some of those ridiculously big wards?) It really does seem pretty meritless to have big three member wards when the council has all up elections - just cut them into three! The reason for the big three-member wards in East Riding appears to be that the council was originally set up with wards that were mostly based on the old Humberside county council divisions. When the LGBCE last reviewed East Riding the council was quite new and there doesn't appear to have been much appetite for wholesale change.
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Post by edgbaston on May 11, 2024 8:53:35 GMT
It makes sense to move BroadCut out of H&SO though it should go into Rural Ward, not South. I also agree that putting South Ossett into the Ossett ward would not be very practical. I can’t see any area of H&OS going into W South on the map linked above?
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Post by ArmchairCritic on May 11, 2024 9:00:16 GMT
It makes sense to move BroadCut out of H&SO though it should go into Rural Ward, not South. I also agree that putting South Ossett into the Ossett ward would not be very practical. I can’t see any area of H&OS going into W South on the map linked above? I'm reading the write up. Broadcut, which was in HSO is going in to South, it says.
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YL
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Post by YL on May 11, 2024 10:37:15 GMT
Having had a quick nosey I’m not really sure what the point of the exercise was… Ditto Barnsley. A few tweaks here and there but nothing substantial. The annoying thing about the Barnsley review is that the electoral figures initially published were dodgy. For example, both my submission and the Lib Dems suggested moving Birdwell from Rockingham ward to Worsbrough ward, which (with a further tweak to Rockingham) under the initially published figures got both wards within 10%. It seems that under the figures they're now using it left Worsbrough too big and Rockingham too small, so they've used the idea but modified it, splitting Birdwell. The electorate figures on the website still seem to be the originally published ones, which is also annoying.
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Post by bluelabour on May 11, 2024 10:41:48 GMT
Ditto Barnsley. A few tweaks here and there but nothing substantial. The annoying thing about the Barnsley review is that the electoral figures initially published were dodgy. For example, both my submission and the Lib Dems suggested moving Birdwell from Rockingham ward to Worsbrough ward, which (with a further tweak to Rockingham) under the initially published figures got both wards within 10%. It seems that under the figures they're now using it left Worsbrough too big and Rockingham too small, so they've used the idea but modified it, splitting Birdwell. The electorate figures on the website still seem to be the originally published ones, which is also annoying. I would get in touch and tell them that. They redid their draft recommendations for South Tyneside for that reason.
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YL
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Post by YL on May 11, 2024 10:42:52 GMT
I can’t see any area of H&OS going into W South on the map linked above? I'm reading the write up. Broadcut, which was in HSO is going in to South, it says. The report says that but the mapping shows it going into Rural and moving it into South would create an exclave, so I'm sure that's a mistake in the report. Odds on Wakefield South being renamed "Wakefield South, Chevet & Notton" after the consultation?
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Post by edgbaston on May 11, 2024 12:01:21 GMT
I'm reading the write up. Broadcut, which was in HSO is going in to South, it says. The report says that but the mapping shows it going into Rural and moving it into South would create an exclave, so I'm sure that's a mistake in the report. Odds on Wakefield South being renamed "Wakefield South, Chevet & Notton" after the consultation? It might seem like a small mistake but all of these big and little mistakes add up to a serious level of incompetence in the body tasked with building the fundamentals of our democracy.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on May 14, 2024 9:29:28 GMT
I took a go at East Yorkshire, using the pre-1997 districts as sub-units for convenience and aiming to keep parishes together whilst eliminating sprawling rural wards. I couldn't find a solution for Bridlington which I liked using the existing polling districts, since few of them follow what I'd consider to be natural boundaries, but for everything else I got something: Holderness10 councillors here, in 5 two-councillor wards. Not a massive fan of the pink one. If you're not bothered about the historical districts then you could swap Brandesburton for Wawne, or if you're OK with a 3-member ward then you can expand the Hornsea ward to encompass every parish not on the A165. Beverley26 councillors here. You don't need to make any changes in Hull's western suburbs, but Cottingham is too small for four councillors so you need to add more rural territory. The parish of Welton ends up being split, but in practice the parish boundaries no longer match settlement boundaries so I'm not too broken up about that. In Beverley, I chose to use the railway line for as much of the boundary as I could. EasternYou could respect the old Boothferry-East Yorkshire boundary, but it's very nearly mathematically impossible to do so without having a division spanning the Ouse, which seems to me like a much more important boundary. So I've chosen to consider the two as a group (though to split them up in how I've shown them here for ease of mapping.) No changes from existing lines round Goole and a nice cohesive Pocklington division, but I'm not overjoyed with either the Market Weighton division or the yellow one, which has pretty poor internal connectivity across Spalding Moor. North WestLeaving aside the seven councillors Bridlington is entitled to, this is what you're left with. Driffield works well, some of the rural single-member wards are pretty artificial but that's always going to be an issue when you have so many tiny parishes.
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