Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,902
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Post by Tony Otim on Aug 30, 2019 10:51:09 GMT
I can’t think of anything worse than 650 independents - people who can’t play nicely in normal political parties. With totally untested views, with no whips to keep them to agreed policies. A parliament filled with such people would make the 2017 parliament look like a paragon of stability. And the thing is, its a totally utopian fantasy anyway as 650 Independents would almost immediately start forming cliques/factions/groups..... Remind you of anything? It would be the parliament we deserve rather than the one we need. |
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,665 
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Post by pl on Aug 30, 2019 11:02:25 GMT
I can’t think of anything worse than 650 independents - people who can’t play nicely in normal political parties. With totally untested views, with no whips to keep them to agreed policies. A parliament filled with such people would make the 2017 parliament look like a paragon of stability. And the thing is, its a totally utopian fantasy anyway as 650 Independents would almost immediately start forming cliques/factions/groups..... Remind you of anything? Indeed. And anyway, the independents we've seen elected in recent decades have had a tendency to rather unhealthy relationships with the Lib Dems. |
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Post by tonygreaves on Aug 30, 2019 15:53:45 GMT
We have about 200 Independents in the Lords. For providing "expertise" they have their uses, and some of them are active campaigners for their particular causes. For passing legislation most of them are useless.
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 30, 2019 17:14:21 GMT
And the thing is, its a totally utopian fantasy anyway as 650 Independents would almost immediately start forming cliques/factions/groups..... Remind you of anything? Indeed. And anyway, the independents we've seen elected in recent decades have had a tendency to rather unhealthy relationships with the Lib Dems. Really? I thought they were mostly Tories in disguise. But in Kirklees they are in a group with the Greens, apart from one who is mainly against halal meat.. And for a while there was one suspended from the Tories for alleged racist tweets (now back in the fold) , and another suspended from Labour for refusing to pay council tax... |
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pl
Non-Aligned
Posts: 1,665
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Post by pl on Aug 30, 2019 17:29:48 GMT
Indeed. And anyway, the independents we've seen elected in recent decades have had a tendency to rather unhealthy relationships with the Lib Dems. Really? I thought they were mostly Tories in disguise. But in Kirklees they are in a group with the Greens, apart from one who is mainly against halal meat.. And for a while there was one suspended from the Tories for alleged racist tweets (now back in the fold) , and another suspended from Labour for refusing to pay council tax... In parliament, not councillors. Think Martin Bell, Dr Richard Taylor. Both, if memory serves me correctly, got a lot of help from the LD whips and took copies of the LD whip. I stand to be corrected on this, though. |
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Post by andrew111 on Aug 30, 2019 17:43:52 GMT
Really? I thought they were mostly Tories in disguise. But in Kirklees they are in a group with the Greens, apart from one who is mainly against halal meat.. And for a while there was one suspended from the Tories for alleged racist tweets (now back in the fold) , and another suspended from Labour for refusing to pay council tax... In parliament, not councillors. Think Martin Bell, Dr Richard Taylor. Both, if memory serves me correctly, got a lot of help from the LD whips and took copies of the LD whip. I stand to be corrected on this, though. Ah well, we are on the local elections thread here so I assumed you meant local govt. The current Parliamentary independents are a disparate group of mal contents some of whom may become Lib Dems but not many.. |
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Post by andrewteale on Aug 31, 2019 16:09:02 GMT
East Kilbride votes (from council website) Grant Ferguson - Scottish National Party (SNP) - 1582 Graham William Fisher - Scottish Conservative and Unionist - 498 Antony Lee - Scottish Green Party - 153 David MacKay - UKIP - 48 Paul McGarry - Scottish Liberal Democrats - 422 Stephen McNamara - Scottish Libertarian Party - 12 Kirsty Williams - Scottish Labour Party - 690 These figures appear to confirm the % in Price of Dawn's post relaying Britain Elects above. After transfers, Ferguson (SNP) won with 1,743 votes to 837 for Williams (Lab) and 606 for Fisher (C). |
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Post by tonygreaves on Aug 31, 2019 22:42:09 GMT
In parliament, not councillors. Think Martin Bell, Dr Richard Taylor. Both, if memory serves me correctly, got a lot of help from the LD whips and took copies of the LD whip. I stand to be corrected on this, though. Ah well, we are on the local elections thread here so I assumed you meant local govt. The current Parliamentary independents are a disparate group of mal contents some of whom may become Lib Dems but not many.. Detailed information on what is happening in the coming week and beyond is provided to MPs and Peers through the "whip" issued by their party group. This is traditionally a piece of paper (now sent by digital means). The "whipping" bit is where it "advises" members how to vote on the items that will or may be subject to a division. (Traditionally by underlining an item one two or three times - whether this underlining still goes on I know not though it was abandoned a year or two back by the LDs in the Lords!) There is therefore a difference between "taking a party whip" and accepting that party's discipline (wholly or in part!) and "receiving a whip". Since an Independent or a one-person party still needs to know what is going on, there may be unofficial arrangements to "receive a copy of the whip" from a party with which a member has some sympathy, without any obligation to vote in any particular way on any issue. There are also a lot of Crossbenchers and Non-affiliated members of the Lords who risk being out of the loop on what is likely to be voted on and when etc. I think there is quite a bit of "soft whipping" goes on with some of these members. |
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Toylyyev
Mebyon Kernow
CJ Fox avatar
Posts: 1,067
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Post by Toylyyev on Sept 15, 2019 19:17:26 GMT
Transfers in East Kilbride:
I II III IV V
Grant FERGUSON SNP 1582 - 6 12% 62 39% 93 20% 1743
Kirsty WILLIAMS Lab 690 2 17% 3 6% 20 13% 122 27% 837
Graham FISHER C 498 1 8% 14 28% 6 4% 87 19% 606
Paul MCGARRY LibDem 422 2 17% 4 8% 28 18% 456
Antony LEE Green 153 1 8% 5 10% 159
David MACKAY UKIP 48 2 17% 50
Stephen MCNAMARA Libt 12
not transferable 4 33% 18 36% 43 27% 154 34%
www.southlanarkshire.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/13209/transfer_report.pdf |
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