Indonesia 2019

[Sibboleth]

Indonesia holds Presidential, Legislative, Provincial and Local elections on the 17th of April. The main event is the Presidential election, which is a rematch of the 2014 contest which saw Joko Widodo of the Sukarnoist PDP-I defeat Prabowo Subianto of the fascist Gerindra 53/47. I made a map:



Polling in Indonesia is problematic, though Widodo has been consistently miles ahead. His extremely broad coalition is dominated by the PDP-I ('Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle) and also, and this is a delicious irony, now includes Golkar, Suharto's old party, plus several Islamic parties on the more moderate end of things (most notably the National Awakening Party, the political arm of the traditionalist* Nahdlatul Ulama movement) and a whole host of other assorted secular groups. Subianto's coalition is much narrower: just Gerindra ('Great Indonesian Movement), the right-wing Democratic Party of former President Yudhoyono, and several Islamist parties. He is also backed by the Suhuarto family and by assorted radical Muslim clerics.

_{*I.e. a preference for local traditions over global tendencies in Islam etc.}

[Foggy]

Thanks for any information. I'm sure many on the forum are, like myself, shamefully unaware of political events in the fourth most populous country in the world.

At first I thought there was a typo on your map, but then I checked and it turns out the second-level administrative subdivision of Indonesia really is called a regency. Hasn't the country been a republic since independence 71 years ago though?

[Georg Ebner]

Mar 14, 2019 19:55:39 GMT Foggy said:

Thanks for any information. I'm sure many on the forum are, like myself, shamefully unaware of political events in the fourth most populous country in the world.

At first I thought there was a typo on your map, but then I checked and it turns out the second-level administrative subdivision of Indonesia really is called a regency. Hasn't the country been a republic since independence 71 years ago though?

Reminds me of the Republic of Ireland (or the USA) and their "counties"...

[johnloony]

Mar 14, 2019 14:46:16 GMT Sibboleth said:

Indonesia holds Presidential, Legislative, Provincial and Local elections on the 17th of April. The main event is the Presidential election, which is a rematch of the 2014 contest which saw Joko Widodo of the Sukarnoist PDP-I defeat Prabowo Subianto of the fascist Gerindra 53/47. I made a map:



Polling in Indonesia is problematic, though Widodo has been consistently miles ahead. His extremely broad coalition is dominated by the PDP-I ('Indonesian Democratic Party of Struggle) and also, and this is a delicious irony, now includes Golkar, Suharto's old party, plus several Islamic parties on the more moderate end of things (most notably the National Awakening Party, the political arm of the traditionalist* Nahdlatul Ulama movement) and a whole host of other assorted secular groups. Subianto's coalition is much narrower: just Gerindra ('Great Indonesian Movement), the right-wing Democratic Party of former President Yudhoyono, and several Islamist parties. He is also backed by the Suhuarto family and by assorted radical Muslim clerics.

_{*I.e. a preference for local traditions over global tendencies in Islam etc.}

Er... which colour is which?

[Sibboleth]

Mar 15, 2019 3:27:59 GMT johnloony said:

Er... which colour is which?

Ah, sorry. Widodo is red.

[Foggy]

Mar 14, 2019 21:43:37 GMT Georg Ebner said:

Mar 14, 2019 19:55:39 GMT Foggy said:

Thanks for any information. I'm sure many on the forum are, like myself, shamefully unaware of political events in the fourth most populous country in the world.

At first I thought there was a typo on your map, but then I checked and it turns out the second-level administrative subdivision of Indonesia really is called a regency. Hasn't the country been a republic since independence 71 years ago though?

Reminds me of the Republic of Ireland (or the USA) and their "counties"...

It's been a long time since most English speakers made an association between the word 'county' and the noble title of Count, I reckon. 

[Deleted]

Mar 14, 2019 19:55:39 GMT Foggy said:

Thanks for any information. I'm sure many on the forum are, like myself, shamefully unaware of political events in the fourth most populous country in the world.

At first I thought there was a typo on your map, but then I checked and it turns out the second-level administrative subdivision of Indonesia really is called a regency. Hasn't the country been a republic since independence 71 years ago though?

Not entirely.

The Yogyakarta Sultanate survives as a special autonomous region, due to the support of the then Sultan for the independence movement in the late 1940s.

[Sibboleth]

Mar 14, 2019 19:55:39 GMT Foggy said:

Thanks for any information. I'm sure many on the forum are, like myself, shamefully unaware of political events in the fourth most populous country in the world.

I think I shall try a few demographic maps and so on to add more context

[yellowperil]

Mar 15, 2019 20:39:58 GMT Foggy said:

Mar 14, 2019 21:43:37 GMT Georg Ebner said:

Reminds me of the Republic of Ireland (or the USA) and their "counties"...

It's been a long time since most English speakers made an association between the word 'county' and the noble title of Count, I reckon. 

Countess rather more commonly, maybe

[Adam in Stroud]

Mar 15, 2019 20:39:58 GMT Foggy said:

Mar 14, 2019 21:43:37 GMT Georg Ebner said:

Reminds me of the Republic of Ireland (or the USA) and their "counties"...

It's been a long time since most English speakers made an association between the word 'county' and the noble title of Count, I reckon. 

Actually Georg could have added Britain to his list - obviously "count" is not an English or Scottish title and even if you allow "earl" as a substitute a shire has never been defined as the area ruled by one (and many earls have had titles which do not correspond to counties).

It's one of the oddities of medieval England that post 1066 there are no territorial magnates equivalent to those in France or the Holy Roman Empire - the Earl of Oxford may or may not have been a big landowner in Oxfordshire, (IIRC by the C15th most of their land was in Suffolk) but he didn't run it - that was the job of the sheriff. 

[finsobruce]

Mar 15, 2019 22:41:12 GMT @wattyler81 said:

Mar 15, 2019 22:38:31 GMT Adam in Stroud said:

Actually Georg could have added Britain to his list - obviously "count" is not an English or Scottish title and even if you allow "earl" as a substitute a shire has never been defined as the area ruled by one (and many earls have had titles which do not correspond to counties).

It's one of the oddities of medieval England that post 1066 there are no territorial magnates equivalent to those in France or the Holy Roman Empire - the Earl of Oxford may or may not have been a big landowner in Oxfordshire, (IIRC by the C15th most of their land was in Suffolk) but he didn't run it - that was the job of the sheriff. 

Ah, but what about "Viscount"  that is used and is familiar

and available in three different colours :

[Adam in Stroud]

Mar 15, 2019 22:41:12 GMT @wattyler81 said:

Mar 15, 2019 22:38:31 GMT Adam in Stroud said:

Actually Georg could have added Britain to his list - obviously "count" is not an English or Scottish title and even if you allow "earl" as a substitute a shire has never been defined as the area ruled by one (and many earls have had titles which do not correspond to counties).

It's one of the oddities of medieval England that post 1066 there are no territorial magnates equivalent to those in France or the Holy Roman Empire - the Earl of Oxford may or may not have been a big landowner in Oxfordshire, (IIRC by the C15th most of their land was in Suffolk) but he didn't run it - that was the job of the sheriff. 

Ah, but what about "Viscount"  that is used and is familiar

But absolutely nothing to do with counties. It's just a two-star hereditary peerage. My point is that since 1066 Earl/Count is just a three-star one - "county" in Britain is just a francophone attempt to find a synonym for the unfamiliar "shire", which is how it so easily transferred not only to Ireland but to the USA where there were never any counts, countesses, viscounts or earls, even before independence.

[Adam in Stroud]

Apologies to Sibboleth, I am dragging this off-topic and as Foggy said information on Indonesia is very welcome.

[froome]

Given Indonesia's geography, I would assume there must be numerous nationalist movements all trying to gain independence for their own island or bit of land. Is that the case?

[Foggy]

Mar 15, 2019 23:02:10 GMT Adam in Stroud said:

Apologies to Sibboleth , I am dragging this off-topic and as Foggy said information on Indonesia is very welcome.

To bring the topic of noble titles back to the matter of Indonesia: I note that the next ruler of the autonomous region mentioned by @goodoldcause2 will be known as the sultana.

Mar 16, 2019 7:45:06 GMT froome said:

Given Indonesia's geography, I would assume there must be numerous nationalist movements all trying to gain independence for their own island or bit of land. Is that the case?

West Papua certainly springs to mind in that regard. 

[yellowperil]

Mar 16, 2019 7:53:38 GMT Foggy said:

Mar 15, 2019 23:02:10 GMT Adam in Stroud said:

Apologies to Sibboleth , I am dragging this off-topic and as Foggy said information on Indonesia is very welcome.

To bring the topic of noble titles back to the matter of Indonesia: I note that the next ruler of the autonomous region mentinoned by @goodoldcause2 will be known as the sultana

Well that may be the currant proposal...

[finsobruce]

Mar 16, 2019 9:10:04 GMT yellowperil said:

Mar 16, 2019 7:53:38 GMT Foggy said:

To bring the topic of noble titles back to the matter of Indonesia: I note that the next ruler of the autonomous region mentinoned by @goodoldcause2 will be known as the sultana

Well that may be the currant proposal...

thank you for raisin that point.

[No Offence Alan]

Mar 16, 2019 7:45:06 GMT froome said:

Given Indonesia's geography, I would assume there must be numerous nationalist movements all trying to gain independence for their own island or bit of land. Is that the case?

I know of Aceh and West Papua, don't know of any others.

[John Chanin]

Mar 16, 2019 9:25:27 GMT No Offence Alan said:

Mar 16, 2019 7:45:06 GMT froome said:

Given Indonesia's geography, I would assume there must be numerous nationalist movements all trying to gain independence for their own island or bit of land. Is that the case?

I know of Aceh and West Papua, don't know of any others.

There was of course the successful rebellion in East Timor, which was annexed by Indonesia after the Portuguese withdrawal.  There is also a longstanding irredentist movement in the Moluccas.  There has been widespread opposition to Indonesian policy of resettling people from overpopulated Java onto outlying islands, including periodic massacres, although I haven't come across formal movements for independence.  

[The Bishop]

Mar 16, 2019 10:39:33 GMT John Chanin said:

Mar 16, 2019 9:25:27 GMT No Offence Alan said:

I know of Aceh and West Papua, don't know of any others.

There was of course the successful rebellion in East Timor, which was annexed by Indonesia after the Portuguese withdrawal.  There is also a longstanding irredentist movement in the Moluccas.  There has been widespread opposition to Indonesian policy of resettling people from overpopulated Java onto outlying islands, including periodic massacres, although I haven't come across formal movements for independence.  

Ah yes, the Republik Malaku Selatan. Their government in exile still (just about) exists.