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Post by bigfatron on Aug 13, 2024 7:59:42 GMT
Two tier policing, as referenced by Musk, GB News, the Mail, Yaxley-Lennon et al, is a reference to the contention that policing standards are determined by politics and/or race, not type of offence.
Witness Rees-Mogg disingenuously asking why those shouting pro-Palestinian hate chants are treated differently from those shouting right-wing hate chants, whilst ignoring the reality that the latter threw bricks and planks at police, put over a hundred policemen in hospital, and set fire to a building with over two hundred people trapped inside, whilst the former did not.
The answer is, fairly obviously, that the police response is substantially based on threat to life; pro-Palestinian hate chanters, whilst obnoxious, were not actually trying to kill people, and were therefore policed less aggressively than far-right hate chanters who were actively trying to hurt and potentially kill.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Aug 13, 2024 9:29:29 GMT
Which is all very reasonable, but I'm not convinced that it's a good look to allow pro-Palestine marchers a free pass to carry placards and scream slogans advocating murder of the Jews, which at the very least seems like inciting racial hatred. One or two judicious arrests of the ringleaders would have gone a long way towards evening up the balance sheet.
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Post by cathyc on Aug 13, 2024 9:39:26 GMT
I don't think this has been covered yet. www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwy31v7lq8yoThe bones of the story appear to be that the previous ruling Conservative group had signed a contract with a property developer, the incoming Lib Dem administration tried and failed to find a way to back out of the deal and so the local councillor resigned to join Labour. Maybe this needs a flow chart. Or rather he resigned to 'form' Labour as the sole member. This suggests that Labour are in favour of unlawfully breaking a contract, or at least they/he are/is now and that they have adopted a NIMBY approach.
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Post by aargauer on Aug 13, 2024 10:53:30 GMT
Two tier policing, as referenced by Musk, GB News, the Mail, Yaxley-Lennon et al, is a reference to the contention that policing standards are determined by politics and/or race, not type of offence. Witness Rees-Mogg disingenuously asking why those shouting pro-Palestinian hate chants are treated differently from those shouting right-wing hate chants, whilst ignoring the reality that the latter threw bricks and planks at police, put over a hundred policemen in hospital, and set fire to a building with over two hundred people trapped inside, whilst the former did not. The answer is, fairly obviously, that the police response is substantially based on threat to life; pro-Palestinian hate chanters, whilst obnoxious, were not actually trying to kill people, and were therefore policed less aggressively than far-right hate chanters who were actively trying to hurt and potentially kill. Whilst I would mostly agree with this regarding the protests, I think the truth being the two-tier statement is more about online statements that are merely "offensive" rather than credible threats. Let's be clear, I think most of the Gaza protestors are anti-Semites, and I would definitely be threatened by them were I visibly Jewish, but that they largely create enough uncertainty about this, unlike the chavs setting fire to travel lodges that I do not want them arrested. There is, basically no reason for offensive, but non-threatening statements to be illegal, and what is and what is not offensive is arbitrary. Is "from the river to the sea" offensive? It is to lots of people.
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Post by uthacalthing on Aug 13, 2024 11:16:12 GMT
Which is all very reasonable, but I'm not convinced that it's a good look to allow pro-Palestine marchers a free pass to carry placards and scream slogans advocating murder of the Jews, which at the very least seems like inciting racial hatred. One or two judicious arrests of the ringleaders would have gone a long way towards evening up the balance sheet. True, but charging into a mob to arrest a target breaks the line and having arrested him removes 2-4 officers from the line to process him, while looking at footage later and knocking on doors three days later is deemed more effective. Once the Mob have formed the view that they are too large to be dealt with, this is usually self fulfilling
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 13, 2024 13:37:02 GMT
Which is all very reasonable, but I'm not convinced that it's a good look to allow pro-Palestine marchers a free pass to carry placards and scream slogans advocating murder of the Jews, which at the very least seems like inciting racial hatred. One or two judicious arrests of the ringleaders would have gone a long way towards evening up the balance sheet. And those arrests were indeed made - but *after* the marches had concluded. There has been a small but steady trickle of prosecutions for such things since last autumn. Btw I would question that *most* - as opposed to a significant minority - of the marchers in question are actually AS. Claiming otherwise seems a bit too close to equating any criticism of Israel as Jew hate to my liking (it is striking how keen *both* extremes in this argument are to claim that "Jews" and Israel - or even Netanyahu - are the same)
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Post by sanders on Aug 13, 2024 13:38:16 GMT
Defecting back from independent to Independent.
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Post by aargauer on Aug 13, 2024 20:55:16 GMT
Which is all very reasonable, but I'm not convinced that it's a good look to allow pro-Palestine marchers a free pass to carry placards and scream slogans advocating murder of the Jews, which at the very least seems like inciting racial hatred. One or two judicious arrests of the ringleaders would have gone a long way towards evening up the balance sheet. And those arrests were indeed made - but *after* the marches had concluded. There has been a small but steady trickle of prosecutions for such things since last autumn. Btw I would question that *most* - as opposed to a significant minority - of the marchers in question are actually AS. Claiming otherwise seems a bit too close to equating any criticism of Israel as Jew hate to my liking (it is striking how keen *both* extremes in this argument are to claim that "Jews" and Israel - or even Netanyahu - are the same) The difference is that people who are uncritically supportive of "Palestine" are generally rather more than critical of Israel. I'm critical of how Israel have handled the West Bank. Im not going to march essentially in sympathy with Hamas and blame Israel for everything and actual terrorists for nothing. Which is what the protesters believe. They are not making a nuanced point. They are simps for Hamas.Its exactly like how Stop the Wars problem isn't criticism of NATO and corrupt Ukrainians (a legitimate view), it's that they are simps for any and every totalitarian anti-western regime. TL DR: The problem isn't Israel criticism, it's a lack of Hamas criticism. There is absolutely none. They are antisemites.
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Post by mattbewilson on Aug 13, 2024 21:45:46 GMT
And those arrests were indeed made - but *after* the marches had concluded. There has been a small but steady trickle of prosecutions for such things since last autumn. Btw I would question that *most* - as opposed to a significant minority - of the marchers in question are actually AS. Claiming otherwise seems a bit too close to equating any criticism of Israel as Jew hate to my liking (it is striking how keen *both* extremes in this argument are to claim that "Jews" and Israel - or even Netanyahu - are the same) The difference is that people who are uncritically supportive of "Palestine" are generally rather more than critical of Israel. I'm critical of how Israel have handled the West Bank. Im not going to march essentially in sympathy with Hamas and blame Israel for everything and actual terrorists for nothing. Which is what the protesters believe. They are not making a nuanced point. They are simps for Hamas.Its exactly like how Stop the Wars problem isn't criticism of NATO and corrupt Ukrainians (a legitimate view), it's that they are simps for any and every totalitarian anti-western regime. TL DR: The problem isn't Israel criticism, it's a lack of Hamas criticism. There is absolutely none. They are antisemites. no protestors don't believe that and no they aren't. Sure some do and some are. But that's not the same thing.
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Post by Rutlander on Aug 15, 2024 14:25:30 GMT
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Post by carolus on Aug 16, 2024 18:03:25 GMT
North Northamptonshire, Oakley (2025). Ross Armour, Labour to No Description.
Spelthorne, Riverside & Laleham (2027). Denise Saliagopoulos, Independent (Affiliated to the Conservative Group) to Conservative.
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Post by sanders on Aug 17, 2024 7:20:09 GMT
I have defected to the Greens.
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batman
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Post by batman on Aug 17, 2024 8:05:17 GMT
That's a "forum defection" and should be in that thread.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 17, 2024 8:36:37 GMT
Also I don't see how you can 'defect' to a party if you have not hitherto been a member of another party
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r34t
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Post by r34t on Aug 17, 2024 8:49:30 GMT
Also I don't see how you can 'defect' to a party if you have not hitherto been a member of another party & that's before we discuss the meaning of the word 'notable' ....
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The Bishop
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 17, 2024 9:10:35 GMT
North Northamptonshire, Oakley (2025). Ross Armour, Labour to No Description. Are we reaching deselection time again?
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Aug 17, 2024 9:42:01 GMT
Also I don't see how you can 'defect' to a party if you have not hitherto been a member of another party & that's before we discuss the meaning of the word 'notable' .... He's so notable that he is quoting his own Tweets on another thread.
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batman
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Post by batman on Aug 17, 2024 10:40:02 GMT
I am not able to follow that.
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Post by carolus on Aug 17, 2024 11:13:08 GMT
North Northamptonshire, Oakley (2025). Ross Armour, Labour to No Description. Are we reaching deselection time again? It's the most wonderful time of year.
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Post by owainsutton on Aug 17, 2024 11:27:23 GMT
Are we reaching deselection time again? It's the most wonderful time of year. It seems to start earlier and earlier. As if we've lost touch with the true meaning of deselection.
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