Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 21:34:35 GMT
The typical reply of someone who can not see the outside world. It is a normal job, MP's get paid like any of us and are subject to rules and laws like the rest of us. The LD's suspended him, so I am asking why he has not been suspended from the council as well. Same goes for Evans, same goes for anyone who is under a legal or semi legal process, they should be suspended until found not guilty or guilty. No it isn't. Are you saying that when allegations are made against Sam Smith MP (Leek & The Roaches) he should be suspended? So who carries out duties on behalf of the good people of Leek & The Roaches while this drags on? Things will survive, the staff will get paid and do the work where necessary, what happens if a senior doctor is suspended, another one covers, so a neighbouring MP could. again if the LD's suspended him then he should be suspended from all posts.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 21:42:49 GMT
The typical reply of someone who can not see the outside world. It is a normal job, MP's get paid like any of us and are subject to rules and laws like the rest of us. The LD's suspended him, so I am asking why he has not been suspended from the council as well. Same goes for Evans, same goes for anyone who is under a legal or semi legal process, they should be suspended until found not guilty or guilty. I have a normal job Ian (well from September anyway) and am not even a member of a party! I am merely a supporter (and my support is more right-wing generalist than overtly Conservative)
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tim13
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Post by tim13 on Jan 26, 2014 21:42:52 GMT
Sorry, I really don't understand politicians trying to get out from under normal disciplinary processes. I do not know the details of where Mike Hancock's case has got to, but if he is accused of something serious, then he should, of course, be precautionarily suspended. The reason for precautionary suspension is not to prejudge the case (whether legal or internal discipline), but to ensure that the organisation and the individual's reputations are preserved, in matters directly concerned with the organisation. It is incomprehensible that people are describing it as "not a normal job". So you can still break the rules, cayse mayhem, be accused of matters for which you could be imprisoned, and you still as a body take no immediate action?? Rubbish.
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Post by erlend on Jan 26, 2014 22:02:13 GMT
I would note that Ian suggests he be suspended from the council. I think I am reight in saying that there is no power to do that. Could Davıd Boothroyd confirm or tell me I am wrong. Council can sack a leader who it disagrees with I know.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 22:04:44 GMT
Well he can be rested from the committee, I recognise like an MP at the moment it is difficult to suspend from attending etc.
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Post by marksenior on Jan 26, 2014 22:43:37 GMT
I will repeat again as it does not seem to sink in .
Accusations were made some time ago against both Rennard and Hancock . If there were to be a suspension then it should have been done at that time ( according to ian ) and FWIW I would probably have agreed . Once the police ( in both cases ) announced that no charges would be brought that should have been suspensions lifted and an end to the matter . However there are many including ian and Channel4 news who see themselves as judges and jury for purely political or other purposes and cannot accept that no charges have been brought let alone that there have been no conviction . The reason I only say probably in my second sentence is that there has been a history of vile false accusations made against Hancock for many years some of which resulted in the conviction of Les Cummings and others just resulted in the shutting down of a website . If as ian says we make a rule and suspend every MP or councillor every time accusations were made against them I suspect that pretty soon half of all MPs and councillors would be under suspension . For example someone could make false allegations against Ed Miliband , ian would immediately expect him to be suspended as Labour leader and an MP - or perhaps he wouldn't - he would suddenly find double standards that only apply to members of parties other than Labour . There are plenty of people out in the world who have a grievance real or perceived against many MPs and councillors who would be happy to cause mischief .
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Post by Deleted on Jan 26, 2014 22:52:05 GMT
no again you go to an extreme
In a normal job HR will make a call to suspend or not so there should be a HR director in every council used to this who can make a call.
The accusations in both cases were serious and suspend at the time you order an inquiry is the normal thing. The only think I have not done is to say whether Rennard or Hancock are guilty of not but said the procedure for both is wrong.
I agree at this stage the LD's suspending is a waste of time and now you have the stupid position of Hancock being suspended from the party but carrying on with normal exec duties. That is inconsistent and wrong.
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jan 26, 2014 23:58:28 GMT
Accusations were made some time ago against both Rennard and Hancock . If there were to be a suspension then it should have been done at that time ( according to ian ) and FWIW I would probably have agreed . Once the police ( in both cases ) announced that no charges would be brought that should have been suspensions lifted and an end to the matter. But, I'm quite sure than you agree than there is other reasons than being prosecuted to suspend someone from the party, through?
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tim13
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Post by tim13 on Jan 27, 2014 0:37:20 GMT
Are you saying, Mark Senior, that there should be no discipline within the party, for elected people, other than police action? We have had enough problems in local government caused by the ineffective sanctions introduced under the coalition, replacing the previous National Conduct Framework.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jan 27, 2014 0:57:46 GMT
What about for tweeting a cartoon containing a holy prophet drawn in a disrespectful way? Some people in the Liberal Democrats seem to think that is grounds for deselection and possibly much worse.
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Post by lbarnes on Jan 27, 2014 1:13:13 GMT
What about for tweeting a cartoon containing a holy prophet drawn in a disrespectful way? Some people in the Liberal Democrats seem to think that is grounds for deselection and possibly much worse. It seems to be just the one Lib Dem who thinks this.
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Post by marksenior on Jan 27, 2014 2:05:44 GMT
no again you go to an extreme In a normal job HR will make a call to suspend or not so there should be a HR director in every council used to this who can make a call. The accusations in both cases were serious and suspend at the time you order an inquiry is the normal thing. The only think I have not done is to say whether Rennard or Hancock are guilty of not but said the procedure for both is wrong. I agree at this stage the LD's suspending is a waste of time and now you have the stupid position of Hancock being suspended from the party but carrying on with normal exec duties. That is inconsistent and wrong. AFAIK , none of the Rennard accusations were supposed to have occurred in the workplace but in bars and conference hotels and dining rooms . Are you seriously saying that the HR of a company would suspend someone for something that allegedly happened between 2 people who work at the same place but meet at a night club or party .
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maxque
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Post by maxque on Jan 27, 2014 3:14:10 GMT
no again you go to an extreme In a normal job HR will make a call to suspend or not so there should be a HR director in every council used to this who can make a call. The accusations in both cases were serious and suspend at the time you order an inquiry is the normal thing. The only think I have not done is to say whether Rennard or Hancock are guilty of not but said the procedure for both is wrong. I agree at this stage the LD's suspending is a waste of time and now you have the stupid position of Hancock being suspended from the party but carrying on with normal exec duties. That is inconsistent and wrong. AFAIK , none of the Rennard accusations were supposed to have occurred in the workplace but in bars and conference hotels and dining rooms . Are you seriously saying that the HR of a company would suspend someone for something that allegedly happened between 2 people who work at the same place but meet at a night club or party . If the public heard about it, yes, most likely the HR director would do it, to protect the commercial brand.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 7:23:30 GMT
Are you seriously saying that the HR of a company would suspend someone for something that allegedly happened between 2 people who work at the same place but meet at a night club or party . Yes, certainly if there was publicity and/or the person was in a senior position. I appreciate that we all try to stand by our parties party through thick & thin, but you're on a loser here.
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Post by marksenior on Jan 27, 2014 8:21:21 GMT
The last 2 comments are ludicrous , a commercial organisation would be liable to be sued for millions if it interfered in people's private lives and sacked them when no criminal offenses had been committed .
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 9:06:43 GMT
This is not private lives if the offences happened in relation to work events AND involved two employees. Standard work contracts state if an event is likely to cause the company harm you can be disciplined.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 27, 2014 10:01:08 GMT
What about for tweeting a cartoon containing a holy prophet drawn in a disrespectful way? Some people in the Liberal Democrats seem to think that is grounds for deselection and possibly much worse. It seems to be just the one Lib Dem who thinks this. This one certainly doesn't, I tell you that.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jan 27, 2014 13:34:37 GMT
no again you go to an extreme In a normal job HR will make a call to suspend or not so there should be a HR director in every council used to this who can make a call. The accusations in both cases were serious and suspend at the time you order an inquiry is the normal thing. The only think I have not done is to say whether Rennard or Hancock are guilty of not but said the procedure for both is wrong. I agree at this stage the LD's suspending is a waste of time and now you have the stupid position of Hancock being suspended from the party but carrying on with normal exec duties. That is inconsistent and wrong. AFAIK , none of the Rennard accusations were supposed to have occurred in the workplace but in bars and conference hotels and dining rooms . Are you seriously saying that the HR of a company would suspend someone for something that allegedly happened between 2 people who work at the same place but meet at a night club or party . Things that party staffers do at party conferences cannot be said to be happening outside the workplace without making a mockery of the term. If you want a non-political analogy, they're on a business trip, where their employer can fairly consider them to be representing the company and expect them to behave accordingly.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Jan 27, 2014 16:43:13 GMT
No it isn't. Are you saying that when allegations are made against Sam Smith MP (Leek & The Roaches) he should be suspended? So who carries out duties on behalf of the good people of Leek & The Roaches while this drags on? Things will survive, the staff will get paid and do the work where necessary, what happens if a senior doctor is suspended, another one covers, so a neighbouring MP could.again if the LD's suspended him then he should be suspended from all posts. Even by your standards Ian that is a ridiculous suggestion.
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Post by erlend on Jan 27, 2014 17:11:00 GMT
I discussed this with a relation who is an academic. They said that even if this was just going out after work the Uni would throw the book. I personally think that is silly.
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