dazza
Non-Aligned
Posts: 134
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Post by dazza on Nov 14, 2013 15:55:02 GMT
I am also deeply afraid that in the cities candidates are being selected as to which 'communities' they represent, which is basically the pork barrel.
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Post by Andrew_S on Nov 16, 2013 3:08:59 GMT
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Post by meurig on Nov 16, 2013 8:32:17 GMT
Raymond Jones, councillor for Holyhead on Ynys Mon, leaves the Labour Party. Fun and games resume on the island after the spring election resulted in an unusually coherent coalition between all the independents and Labour. One of the independents left the coalition a few weeks ago.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 9:36:55 GMT
on his general points about politics I totally agree with him. Radical changes are needed and the first party to do this (but may have short term losses) will be the long term winners.
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cibwr
Plaid Cymru
Posts: 3,588
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Post by cibwr on Nov 16, 2013 10:13:08 GMT
Raymond Jones, councillor for Holyhead on Ynys Mon, leaves the Labour Party. Fun and games resume on the island after the spring election resulted in an unusually coherent coalition between all the independents and Labour. One of the independents left the coalition a few weeks ago. Has he left the coalition though? Any articles on this defection?
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Nov 16, 2013 12:13:32 GMT
A shame. He makes some good points about party politics. A loss to the party.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 17, 2013 11:46:07 GMT
I love the cognitive dissonance of this.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 17, 2013 21:22:38 GMT
I am also deeply afraid that in the cities candidates are being selected as to which 'communities' they represent, which is basically the pork barrel. Well, I would be just as concerned if the local council wasn't at least reasonably representative of its population
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Post by erlend on Nov 17, 2013 21:41:24 GMT
That is very different from in effect saying that people are there to represent the community leaders, But I think there lies a philosophical difference.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 17, 2013 21:58:14 GMT
That is very different from in effect saying that people are there to represent the community leaders, But I think there lies a philosophical difference. Oh, that certainly happens. I actually recall a ward in Kirklees (Crosland Moor) which shifted massively from Labour to LD for a couple of years largely down to the mass bloc movement of the Asian community. Given that the sitting Labour councillor often spoke enthusiastically about his holidays to visit his son in apartheid South Africa with no sense of irony, it wasn't altogether surprising. There is also a Kirklees ward in Dewsbury - Dewsbury South - where there have been similar large shifts - at one time the ward had a councillor from each major party all elected with huge majorities. But I don't think that should mean that we should consider all selections of minority councillors to be similar - and as I say, if there are areas with diverse populations it would be perverse if none were represented
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Nov 17, 2013 22:10:00 GMT
Dewsbury South is the Tablighi Jamaat ward, isn't it?
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Post by erlend on Nov 17, 2013 22:26:19 GMT
Even Tower Hamlets should have white cllrs. To be fair I made that as a point and I am sure that there are white Labour cllrs there. I actually agree with you that having large parts of society unrepresented is a bad thing.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 17, 2013 22:49:14 GMT
In the age of mass suffrage, there's not much of an argument that certain groups of people should specifically not be represented amongst elected representatives. The issue is whether they should be represented specifically because of who they are, or whether it's just a bad thing if a party has negligible support amongst a particular group of society.
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Post by psephos on Nov 17, 2013 23:16:15 GMT
In the age of mass suffrage, there's not much of an argument that certain groups of people should specifically not be represented amongst elected representatives. That's right but the problem is with the wards highlighted above - the wards where you might as well not bother standing if your skin colour is different to the local ethnic majority. Members of the minority stand no chance of getting elected and are essentially excluded from representation. This applies also to the ward in Woking recently where a Labour-Lib Dem election petition ended up unseating the elected councillor and the by-election returned a Tory who happened to be in the local 'community'. Those who had previously voted Labour or Lib Dem now voted Tory - political ideology, what political ideology! It was all about making sure a "certain group of people should specifically be represented amongst elected representatives" and ipso facto also making sure "certain [other] groups of people should specifically not be represented amongst elected representatives".
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Post by erlend on Nov 17, 2013 23:27:17 GMT
People are entitled to vote along communalist lines. Despite it being IMPO stupid.
And I think even quite a lot of these wards have mixed ethnic representation.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 17, 2013 23:47:56 GMT
Exactly. To the extent anybody should do anything about it, it's the parties selecting candidates, who have to make sure that the person they're selecting shares their values and isn't just using them to help get elected. But parties should be doing that regardless of ethnicity.
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Post by Merseymike on Nov 18, 2013 0:41:37 GMT
In the age of mass suffrage, there's not much of an argument that certain groups of people should specifically not be represented amongst elected representatives. That's right but the problem is with the wards highlighted above - the wards where you might as well not bother standing if your skin colour is different to the local ethnic majority. Members of the minority stand no chance of getting elected and are essentially excluded from representation. This applies also to the ward in Woking recently where a Labour-Lib Dem election petition ended up unseating the elected councillor and the by-election returned a Tory who happened to be in the local 'community'. Those who had previously voted Labour or Lib Dem now voted Tory - political ideology, what political ideology! It was all about making sure a "certain group of people should specifically be represented amongst elected representatives" and ipso facto also making sure "certain [other] groups of people should specifically not be represented amongst elected representatives". I'll have to ask Stephen - the Labour candidate, who I know. Thing is the ward is always close, Labour haven't won it for a while, but the Conservatives have, and I gather a lot of people who voted LD last time voted Tory this time - and not only from the Asian community, where Labour polled well
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Post by No Offence Alan on Nov 18, 2013 12:02:42 GMT
As I see it, there are basically two reasons for casting a vote. A. Loyalty - to a class, ethnic group, religion, ideology, etc. B. Competence.
If you always vote for reasons of A. sooner or later you end up with an incompetent government.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Nov 18, 2013 13:03:28 GMT
On the other hand, competence is impossible to measure objectively, particularly in the case of challengers, nor is it necessarily beneficial to have somebody competently pursuing an agenda you oppose. So I'd argue that's a false dichotomy.
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Post by meurig on Nov 18, 2013 14:36:22 GMT
Raymond Jones, councillor for Holyhead on Ynys Mon, leaves the Labour Party. Fun and games resume on the island after the spring election resulted in an unusually coherent coalition between all the independents and Labour. One of the independents left the coalition a few weeks ago. Has he left the coalition though? Any articles on this defection? Can't find anything on it in English, but here's a link: www.bbc.co.uk/newyddion/24965349
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