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Post by mrhell on Jul 21, 2013 16:15:35 GMT
I don't believe their place is in the provision of public services. That's why I'm a socialist My mother ran a small education company for 10 years where she employed me as the only worker. She was invited by private and state schools to do day work (we also ran irregular conferences). This work got us both about £10000 a year. The reason the local authority she used to work for stopped her employment was because she had turned 60. The question is whether you'd prefer the schools to employ someone else who wouldn't have been their first choice? He may bear responsibility for Tiananmen Square in 1989 but Deng Xiaoping's comment "It doesn't matter whether a cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice." makes a lot of sense. |
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Post by Merseymike on Jul 21, 2013 18:34:04 GMT
I don't believe their place is in the provision of public services. That's why I'm a socialist My mother ran a small education company for 10 years where she employed me as the only worker. She was invited by private and state schools to do day work (we also ran irregular conferences). This work got us both about £10000 a year. The reason the local authority she used to work for stopped her employment was because she had turned 60. The question is whether you'd prefer the schools to employ someone else who wouldn't have been their first choice? He may bear responsibility for Tiananmen Square in 1989 but Deng Xiaoping's comment "It doesn't matter whether a cat is white or black, as long as it catches mice." makes a lot of sense. That wouldn't concern me - specialist support services have always been brought in (music teachers on a self-employed basis, for example). What I'm opposed to is the wholesale contracting out particularly to profit making companies. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 20:08:27 GMT
Could this be continued in another thread, perhaps? I keep seeing Defections highlighted with new entries, and when I come here, it's not a defection, just a discussion of policy.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Jul 21, 2013 21:42:33 GMT
This has been the lot of defection threads through the ages. I think you just have to accept that fact (the chap who started the original one on the old site used to get very precious about it)
Apologies btw if you again came here thinking I had posted news of a defection. But then obviously I had come onto this thread thinking that you had
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Post by Deleted on Jul 21, 2013 22:25:15 GMT
Peres right I should have apologized for drawing someone to this thread who was looking for news of a defection. Your apology for misleading us on this thread is accepted Sent from my Dell Streak using proboards |
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Jul 22, 2013 10:18:08 GMT
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Crimson King
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Be nice to each other and sing in tune
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Post by Crimson King on Jul 22, 2013 11:14:46 GMT
That is odd, would it be churlish to suspect that there were more than simple changes of philosopy behind it?
(edit) reading the story possibly not, although one does wonder what he was doing in the Labour party in the first place
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 11:57:42 GMT
It would be strange if it were for personal electoral gain with labour being in a stronger position in the polls in general and with not much change since 2012 when he was elected.
There seems to be a small but significant element of the "my dad voted labour and his dad voted labour" type who suddenly realise that they aren't in any way left of centre. Perhaps its one of those, or just a straightforward personal realignment.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 22:14:05 GMT
There was a news story this morning about someone from Cambridge going into Labour, or something like that - does that count as a defection?
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 23:00:10 GMT
I'm afraid I don't have a link for this, but I understand that Adam Pogonowski, former Green group leader on Cambridge City Council who defected to Labour on election day in 2012 and then resigned his seat earlier this year, has now rejoined the Greens.
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 23:20:37 GMT
I'm afraid I don't have a link for this, but I understand that Adam Pogonowski, former Green group leader on Cambridge City Council who defected to Labour on election day in 2012 and then resigned his seat earlier this year, has now rejoined the Greens. What an arse. |
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Post by Tactical Green on Jul 23, 2013 3:51:38 GMT
Yes he's rejoined the Greens and has been posting on the members party forum recently. Haven't seen any explanation of his decision to rejoin
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Post by marksenior on Jul 23, 2013 5:00:39 GMT
And the idiots have let him back in ?
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Post by froome on Jul 23, 2013 6:07:55 GMT
Which 'idiots' are these Mark?
The GPEW has no rule about people who leave the party not being able to rejoin, including ex-councillors, and I suspect Adam will have learnt a lot from this experience and hopefully become an asset in the party. He is young and has much potential when he finally settles down into a poltical role.
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Post by marksenior on Jul 23, 2013 8:24:49 GMT
Which 'idiots' are these Mark? The GPEW has no rule about people who leave the party not being able to rejoin, including ex-councillors, and I suspect Adam will have learnt a lot from this experience and hopefully become an asset in the party. He is young and has much potential when he finally settles down into a poltical role. The only potential he has got is to go off again to another party when something happens he does not like . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 8:41:46 GMT
Which 'idiots' are these Mark? The GPEW has no rule about people who leave the party not being able to rejoin, including ex-councillors, and I suspect Adam will have learnt a lot from this experience and hopefully become an asset in the party. He is young and has much potential when he finally settles down into a poltical role. The only potential he has got is to go off again to another party when something happens he does not like . So you wouldn't support the LibDems who keep inviting me to rejoin in Worthing then, Mark? Had another plea on Saturday...  Seriously, I imagine/hope that these issues have been addressed directly to Adam by the Cambridge party, and I guess he'll have to prove himself to them before they trust him fully,- but others before him have 're-ratted', and he won't be the last. Sent from my Dell Streak using proboards |
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Post by marksenior on Jul 23, 2013 9:27:00 GMT
The only potential he has got is to go off again to another party when something happens he does not like . So you wouldn't support the LibDems who keep inviting me to rejoin in Worthing then, Mark? Had another plea on Saturday... Seriously, I imagine/hope that these issues have been addressed directly to Adam by the Cambridge party, and I guess he'll have to prove himself to them before they trust him fully,- but others before him have 're-ratted', and he won't be the last. Sent from my Dell Streak using proboards No I wouldn't though my objection is not personal but a general view on this sort of situation which I have seen many times over the years . There is never any long term benefits in having people in an organisation who have shown themselves incapable of keeping a firm set of beliefs . |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 9:58:31 GMT
So you wouldn't support the LibDems who keep inviting me to rejoin in Worthing then, Mark? Had another plea on Saturday... Seriously, I imagine/hope that these issues have been addressed directly to Adam by the Cambridge party, and I guess he'll have to prove himself to them before they trust him fully,- but others before him have 're-ratted', and he won't be the last. Sent from my Dell Streak using proboards No I wouldn't though my objection is not personal but a general view on this sort of situation which I have seen many times over the years . There is never any long term benefits in having people in an organisation who have shown themselves incapable of keeping a firm set of beliefs . well of course a lot of defectors (not all) would say that they've kept a first set of beliefs, it's the party they were in that didn't  Anyway, leaving aside the fact that I know nothing of what caused AP to leave the greens, join labour, or rejoin the greens, I'd want to consider the following: 1. Was the initial defection caused by a sincere change of beliefs by the individual or disagreement with a party change of belief? Or was it caused by deselection, personal ambition, or issues with other individuals? 2. If someone tries to rejoin a party they left - perhaps it's because they now realise that they made a mistake - is that a genuine claim, or are they being opportunistic (again)? 3. Going on to a third party looks, to say the least, like the act of someone who definitely is untrustworthy. 4. In the AP scenario, there is obviously no chance of Labour taking him back again if he wanted to swap sides a third time, so at leas the Greens can put that much faith in him! |
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Jul 23, 2013 10:05:10 GMT
The only potential he has got is to go off again to another party when something happens he does not like . So you wouldn't support the LibDems who keep inviting me to rejoin in Worthing then, Mark? Had another plea on Saturday... Seriously, I imagine/hope that these issues have been addressed directly to Adam by the Cambridge party, and I guess he'll have to prove himself to them before they trust him fully,- but others before him have 're-ratted', and he won't be the last. Sent from my Dell Streak using proboards My understanding is that Adam has moved to London, so I doubt that the Cambridge Greens, to the extent they still exist, have addressed anything at all to him. Even if he hasn't moved yet, he hadn't been resident in the Cambridge constituency since shortly after he was elected, so he'd presumably be part of a different party unit anyway. To be honest, I think Adam joined Labour because there were a couple of Labour councillors he really trusted, and he felt like he could work as part of a group with them. That doesn't necessarily mean he ever felt comfortable in the Labour Party as a whole, so I'm not surprised he's drifted away now he hasn't got anything to keep him active in Labour circles. |
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Post by Deleted on Jul 23, 2013 10:06:15 GMT
The Greens already put a lot of faith in him and thanks to him their chances of staying on the city council fell to almost zero. His reasons for defection were pretty weak and didn't seem overly rooted in local factors. I'm not even sure I'd trust him with a clipboard.
Still it only highlights the weakness of the Greens organisation that we need to rely so much on so few people..
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