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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 2, 2020 11:20:16 GMT
Then why are they standing in that constituency if they can't even live or work with their constituents or nearby? Because they're career politicians and career politicians are awful politicians. Again using Flello as an example, when he was selected (before he started a relationship outside of marriage that ended the marriage) the agreement was that he wouldn’t move immediately from Birmingham because his daughter was in her second year of GCSE’s and it wouldn’t be in her best interests to move school, and his wife ran a number of projects for people with autism that needed an orderly handover to new management. However, I guess if you’re prepared to allow a 50 mile radius then Birmingham/Manchester are just about within that as we’re exactly 50 miles from both. I don’t think we’d disagree though that the candidate and CLP should agree to a timetable by which they did move to the constituency. This does create one other problem however, when you have a “couple” who are MPs; wasn’t too bad for the Winterton’s representing neighbouring constituencies, but how would you accommodate Janet Anderson in Rossendale and Darwen and Jim Dowd in Lewisham? That seems like a fair compromise, that they have to move to the constituency once they have been selected. For the second issue, I would create a rule that says you have to at least rent a flat in the constituency and to live there for at least a given number of days in a year, the ideal arrangement to me would be to have a flat over a constituency office, which would allow the MP's to easily attend to constituency business without claiming expenses for hotels and taxis that they might usually need to carry out their roles and responsibilities.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 2, 2020 11:35:48 GMT
Again using Flello as an example, when he was selected (before he started a relationship outside of marriage that ended the marriage) the agreement was that he wouldn’t move immediately from Birmingham because his daughter was in her second year of GCSE’s and it wouldn’t be in her best interests to move school, and his wife ran a number of projects for people with autism that needed an orderly handover to new management. However, I guess if you’re prepared to allow a 50 mile radius then Birmingham/Manchester are just about within that as we’re exactly 50 miles from both. I don’t think we’d disagree though that the candidate and CLP should agree to a timetable by which they did move to the constituency. This does create one other problem however, when you have a “couple” who are MPs; wasn’t too bad for the Winterton’s representing neighbouring constituencies, but how would you accommodate Janet Anderson in Rossendale and Darwen and Jim Dowd in Lewisham? That seems like a fair compromise, that they have to move to the constituency once they have been selected. For the second issue, I would create a rule that says you have to at least rent a flat in the constituency and to live there for at least a given number of days in a year, the ideal arrangement to me would be to have a flat over a constituency office, which would allow the MP's to easily attend to constituency business without claiming expenses for hotels and taxis that they might usually need to carry out their roles and responsibilities. We’ve always seen that as a minimum condition for meeting the eligibility criteria for standing - both Flello and McDonald rented properties within days of being selected; and of course there’s Paul Nuttall’s infamous empty house during the Stoke Central by-election.
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 2, 2020 12:05:29 GMT
That seems like a fair compromise, that they have to move to the constituency once they have been selected. For the second issue, I would create a rule that says you have to at least rent a flat in the constituency and to live there for at least a given number of days in a year, the ideal arrangement to me would be to have a flat over a constituency office, which would allow the MP's to easily attend to constituency business without claiming expenses for hotels and taxis that they might usually need to carry out their roles and responsibilities. We’ve always seen that as a minimum condition for meeting the eligibility criteria for standing - both Flello and McDonald rented properties within days of being selected; and of course there’s Paul Nuttall’s infamous empty house during the Stoke Central by-election. Maybe that should be made law.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 2, 2020 12:09:50 GMT
We’ve always seen that as a minimum condition for meeting the eligibility criteria for standing - both Flello and McDonald rented properties within days of being selected; and of course there’s Paul Nuttall’s infamous empty house during the Stoke Central by-election. Maybe that should be made law. I think it’s been a fairly long standing tradition in Stoke; I know in Central both Mark Fisher and Tristram Hunt rented a room off Peter Cheeseman the theatre director/founder of The New Vic theatre in the round. Not sure what Ruth Smeeth did, I’ll see if the SOPN is online and provides illumination.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Oct 2, 2020 12:12:12 GMT
We’ve always seen that as a minimum condition for meeting the eligibility criteria for standing - both Flello and McDonald rented properties within days of being selected; and of course there’s Paul Nuttall’s infamous empty house during the Stoke Central by-election. Maybe that should be made law. Personally, I prefer honesty. Artificially creating a local address for the sake of appearance seems the worst of both worlds.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 2, 2020 12:23:44 GMT
Maybe that should be made law. Personally, I prefer honesty. Artificially creating a local address for the sake of appearance seems the worst of both worlds. Unless you’re going to insist on hyper local candidates, which in my experience is impossible and something to be avoided at all costs, what’s the alternative - not all selections, and I’ve given a few examples just from Stoke, occur two or three years before an election, so anything other than a short-term rent is both impractical and unrealistic. It’s also very cynical to suggest it’s for the sake of appearance - would you have seriously expected Mark McDonald to do an at least 200 mile commute every day to start campaigning at 9am and usually finish at 10pm (incidentally the last train from Stoke to London Euston leaves at 8.06pm making evening campaigning impossible).
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 2, 2020 12:26:48 GMT
That seems like a fair compromise, that they have to move to the constituency once they have been selected. Which becomes in snap elections when candidates are sometimes confirmed as late as lunchtime the day nominations close. How would that work in a multi town, large rural or island seat? Would the MP be expected to have a private boat back to the office/flat every night?
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 2, 2020 12:27:25 GMT
Maybe that should be made law. I think it’s been a fairly long standing tradition in Stoke; I know in Central both Mark Fisher and Tristram Hunt rented a room off Peter Cheeseman the theatre director/founder of The New Vic theatre in the round. Not sure what Ruth Smeeth did, I'll see if the SOPN is online and provides illumination. candidates.democracyclub.org.uk/elections/parl.stoke-on-trent-north.2019-12-12/sopn/"(Address in Stoke-on-Trent North)"
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 2, 2020 12:27:46 GMT
Maybe that should be made law. Personally, I prefer honesty. Artificially creating a local address for the sake of appearance seems the worst of both worlds. I also prefer honesty, but you could add a proviso that they prove a period of actual residency in the area or the intention to move into a residence in the area. This could be independently verified by a member of the local authority's Democratic Services staff, maybe the Returning Officer, in order to comply with GDPR requirements to protect their data.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 2, 2020 12:31:28 GMT
I think it’s been a fairly long standing tradition in Stoke; I know in Central both Mark Fisher and Tristram Hunt rented a room off Peter Cheeseman the theatre director/founder of The New Vic theatre in the round. Not sure what Ruth Smeeth did, I'll see if the SOPN is online and provides illumination. candidates.democracyclub.org.uk/elections/parl.stoke-on-trent-north.2019-12-12/sopn/"(Address in Stoke-on-Trent North)" From memory (never a totally reliable source) she stayed with Joan Walley.
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Post by Disgusted Of Tunbridge Wells on Oct 2, 2020 12:44:14 GMT
That seems like a fair compromise, that they have to move to the constituency once they have been selected. Which becomes in snap elections when candidates are sometimes confirmed as late as lunchtime the day nominations close. How would that work in a multi town, large rural or island seat? Would the MP be expected to have a private boat back to the office/flat every night? Firstly, I think a relaxation of the rules for special circumstances like by elections would be fair, however if a local party knows their incumbent MP is retiring or is likely to retire or not be able to stand at the next election because of factors like health issues, why wouldn't they make moves towards selecting a successor candidate as soon as they knew of the circumstances of the incumbent? If you were serious about selection, you could always spend a few hours investigation the ease of acquiring or renting an apartment in the constituency or nearby. Secondly, in response to your other point, in a rural constituency, the candidate may have to consider accepting the limitations of commuting on public transport or permanently moving into the constituency. As a more extreme example, I'm sure Alistair Carmichael didn't consider it feasible to commute from the mainland to his constituency in order to serve as MP for Orkney and Shetland.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on Oct 2, 2020 13:01:06 GMT
Which becomes in snap elections when candidates are sometimes confirmed as late as lunchtime the day nominations close. How would that work in a multi town, large rural or island seat? Would the MP be expected to have a private boat back to the office/flat every night? Firstly, I think a relaxation of the rules for special circumstances like by elections would be fair, however if a local party knows their incumbent MP is retiring or is likely to retire or not be able to stand at the next election because of factors like health issues, why wouldn't they make moves towards selecting a successor candidate as soon as they knew of the circumstances of the incumbent? If you were serious about selection, you could always spend a few hours investigation the ease of acquiring or renting an apartment in the constituency or nearby. Again I come back to George Stevenson, who had already been reselected but whose wife was diagnosed with a terminal illness persuading him to retire a Parliament early, or Mark Fisher who wasn’t diagnosed with an illness, which wasn’t life altering but would require numerous surgeries, until February 2010.
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 2, 2020 13:01:44 GMT
A number of MPs announce their retirement very late in the day for all manner of reasons including (allegedly) to ensure a greater role for the party outside the constituency in the selection because of internal struggles that make a local candidate undesirable.
In some of the most rural/island seats there is still a tradition of the MP travelling around the seat and staying in local guest houses on expenses rather than rushing to a constituency home many miles away every night. In island seats the ferry timetables makes it especially difficult to pop back home.
A lot of proposals about MPs and expenses seem to work on the assumption that every seat is like Islington North.
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Post by East Anglian Lefty on Oct 2, 2020 14:26:25 GMT
And honestly, if the electorate are that bothered, they have an option to vote for somebody else. Plenty of Labour supporters in safely Tory seats complain that their MP is never seen in the constituency, plenty of Tory supporters in safe Labour seats complain similarly. It's much rarer for people who actually agree with the MP to make such complaints and where they do they usually underperform at the ballot box anyway.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 2, 2020 14:29:55 GMT
That seems like a fair compromise, that they have to move to the constituency once they have been selected. Which becomes in snap elections when candidates are sometimes confirmed as late as lunchtime the day nominations close. How would that work in a multi town, large rural or island seat? Would the MP be expected to have a private boat back to the office/flat every night? Why should I, living in Sheffield Central, have to rent a flat on the other side of the road in Sheffield Brightside, just to be allowed to stand for election there? Come on, admit it: "Only rich people should be allowed to access elected office".
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peterl
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Post by peterl on Oct 2, 2020 14:37:43 GMT
Possibly there could be a half-way house. Such as having to live within so many miles of the constituency. After all, there are requirements to live or work locally for council elections.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on Oct 2, 2020 14:43:24 GMT
Possibly there could be a half-way house. Such as having to live within so many miles of the constituency. After all, there are requirements to live or work locally for council elections. The requirement is to live in the UK to stand for the UK Parliament. That's analogous to living in a council area to stand for that council (and it doesn't apply for Parish councils anyway). There's no requirement to live in or near the ward you represent.
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J.G.Harston
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Post by J.G.Harston on Oct 2, 2020 14:58:14 GMT
Possibly there could be a half-way house. Such as having to live within so many miles of the constituency. After all, there are requirements to live or work locally for council elections. The requirements are exactly the same: live* somewhere in the area covered by the elected assembly. If you want to stand for election to the EU Parliament, live somewhere in the EU If you want to stand for election to the UK Parliament, live somewhere in the UK If you want to stand for election to the Scottish Parliament, live somewhere in Scotland If you want to stand for election to North Yorkshire County Council, live somewhere in North Yorkshire If you want to stand for election to Scarborough Borough Council, live somewhere in Scarborough Borough If you want to stand for election to Whitby Town Council, live somewhere in Whitby Town.... parishes are the only excepetion with: "or within 3 miles" added. *live/work/own, rent or occupy property/be on the electoral register
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Post by timrollpickering on Oct 2, 2020 15:39:59 GMT
A number of candidates gave addresses outside the UK in the SOPN.
And I'm not sure you have to live in Wales to stand for the Welsh Parliament. IIRC Neil Hamilton doesn't.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Oct 2, 2020 17:17:32 GMT
A number of candidates gave addresses outside the UK in the SOPN. And I'm not sure you have to live in Wales to stand for the Welsh Parliament. IIRC Neil Hamilton doesn't. Correct.
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