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Post by Adam in Stroud on Aug 7, 2019 9:48:50 GMT
No - it means you've recognised it's your party as much as (or more than) it's Corbyn's, or Milne's, or Momentum's, or Merseymike's ... Are you suggesting that @barnabymarder is on the right of the party? Other than on the obvious single issue I've always regarded him as a left winger. And even that issue isn't really left-right. Me too, which makes it all the more bizarre that your wing are going out of their way to strain his loyalty, and you personally seemed quite relaxed about losing him.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 7, 2019 9:52:26 GMT
Are you suggesting that @barnabymarder is on the right of the party? Other than on the obvious single issue I've always regarded him as a left winger. And even that issue isn't really left-right. Me too, which makes it all the more bizarre that your wing are going out of their way to strain his loyalty, and you personally seemed quite relaxed about losing him. For me the issue we disagree on is something I feel very strongly about. I have made my view clear and it has greatly strengthened by the behaviour of those on the other side. Being stalked online and threatened including contacting two organisations of which I am a trustee didn't impress. Note that was nothing to do with @barnabymarder but it was the work of two people associated with pro-Israel stances
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The Bishop
Labour
Down With Factionalism!
Posts: 36,579
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Post by The Bishop on Aug 7, 2019 10:31:23 GMT
And if that makes me a cunt, so be it, I'm a cunt. You certainly are not.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 7, 2019 12:58:13 GMT
"David Herdson Conservative Party member (1995-2019) Councillor, Bradford MDC (1999-2003) Chairman, Shipley Conservative Association (2011-13) Chairman, Wakefield District Conservative Association (2016-18)" This has always been happening in all the parties and is usually a reflection more of personal animosities than of policy differnces whatever is said and believed by the one doing the resigning. It is not usual for it to be on policy differences in the Conservative Party, but it does look as if it may become more common for the short term. I think the era of IT facilitated grandstanding has made all this far more public than once it was. Matters that would often have been completely private, or only known within part of the local party, and occasionally getting into page 5 of the Tuesday give-away newspaper, are now spread out thinly like Marmite on toast and given an airing out of all proportion to intrinsic worth. This is definitely one such case. Small dull fish in small pond leaping out of water and shouting 'I am big really'......Plop!!!
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,377
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Post by mboy on Aug 7, 2019 13:28:23 GMT
David Herdson is one of the best article writers on the www.politicalbetting.com site. He's respected across the board. Another one of the good writers, Richard Nabavi, also resigned from the Conservative Party last month. They were both reticent Leavers - i.e. activists who voted Remain but accepted the Leave result must happen, but cannot be part of they way No Deal is being forced. If I was a Tory I'd be dismayed that some of the best intellectuals are walking away from the party and being replaced by ranty air-heads. It's what happened to Labour, and look how that turned out.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 7, 2019 13:44:41 GMT
I'd love to know who you rate as the great intellectual forces we have lost - certainly none of the departing recent Mps come into that category, nor Alistair Campbell!
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Post by tonygreaves on Aug 7, 2019 14:33:17 GMT
The suspended Councillor in Bournemouth seems to be on the border line of criticising Israel and anti-Semitic comment. Typical of the mess the Labour party has got itself into. But given this Councillor's other interests, there will no doubt also be accusation of sexism and homophobia against her. It's certainly not a person Labour has just picked up off the street to stand as a candidate.
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carlton43
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 7, 2019 14:42:36 GMT
I'd love to know who you rate as the great intellectual forces we have lost - certainly none of the departing recent Mps come into that category, nor Alistair Campbell! I think Mike that when LDs refer to 'great intellectual forces' in your party or mine, they mean people in our parties who have centrist mderate views like their own! They will often be people you and I are quite happy to see the back of and have long thought to be of our problems rather than our solutions. That is not to say that I have anything against them or the Soames and Grieves element other than to say they don't fit our present model nor the direction in which we wish to go. It is as simple as that. They feel uncomfortable in the current situation and I fully understand that. Sorry! There it is. The party does not suit them any more. I had years when it didn't suit me. We are gaining charge now and it is our turn to call the shots.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 7, 2019 15:31:36 GMT
And if that makes me a cunt, so be it, I'm a cunt. It certainly makes you an accessory to racism, given that in the time you were away from your party it did - at best - precisely nothing to address the issues you supposedly felt strongly enough about to leave. At worst, it has actively smeared whistleblowers who share those concerns. So your stand against anti-semitism has lasted all of five minutes, and you're now evidently happy to work towards Corbyn's election as Prime Minister. But don't worry, that doesn't make you any more or less of a cunt than you were already. Barnaby's stand against anti-semitism has gone on probably all his life and a lot longer than five minutes in the Labour party.
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Post by syorkssocialist on Aug 7, 2019 17:02:03 GMT
And if that makes me a cunt, so be it, I'm a cunt. It certainly makes you an accessory to racism, given that in the time you were away from your party it did - at best - precisely nothing to address the issues you supposedly felt strongly enough about to leave. At worst, it has actively smeared whistleblowers who share those concerns. So your stand against anti-semitism has lasted all of five minutes, and you're now evidently happy to work towards Corbyn's election as Prime Minister. But don't worry, that doesn't make you any more or less of a cunt than you were already. I don't see how your comment is any different to the more toxic side of the left abusing BAME Tories and calling them accessories to racism.
Socialists Against Antisemitism, which Barnaby is apart of, is doing fantastic work. Your suggestion that he's done nothing to address the issue is utterly preposterous.
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Post by finsobruce on Aug 7, 2019 17:09:24 GMT
It certainly makes you an accessory to racism, given that in the time you were away from your party it did - at best - precisely nothing to address the issues you supposedly felt strongly enough about to leave. At worst, it has actively smeared whistleblowers who share those concerns. So your stand against anti-semitism has lasted all of five minutes, and you're now evidently happy to work towards Corbyn's election as Prime Minister. But don't worry, that doesn't make you any more or less of a cunt than you were already. I don't see how your comment is any different to the more toxic side of the left abusing BAME Tories and calling them accessories to racism.
Socialists Against Antisemitism, which Barnaby is apart of, is doing fantastic work. Your suggestion that he's done nothing to address the issue is utterly preposterous. on the verge of your 1,000th post! Congratulations on reaching the foothills of the posting mountain!
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Post by heslingtonian on Aug 7, 2019 18:52:15 GMT
And if that makes me a cunt, so be it, I'm a cunt. It certainly makes you an accessory to racism, given that in the time you were away from your party it did - at best - precisely nothing to address the issues you supposedly felt strongly enough about to leave. At worst, it has actively smeared whistleblowers who share those concerns. So your stand against anti-semitism has lasted all of five minutes, and you're now evidently happy to work towards Corbyn's election as Prime Minister. But don't worry, that doesn't make you any more or less of a cunt than you were already. I’m a Conservative supporter but the tone of this comment is deeply unpleasant. I don’t agree with Barnaby on many things but unlike some on here he makes his arguments in a civil way and without the need to insult those he disagrees with. Political tribalism is badly damaging our politics and I had expected better of you.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 7, 2019 20:47:01 GMT
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 7, 2019 21:13:49 GMT
Whoa, don't associate me with the remarks of @skybluecolu And - once again - I did not suggest that @barnabymarder was on the right of the Labour Party.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 7, 2019 21:16:33 GMT
Whoa, don't associate me with the remarks of @skybluecolu And - once again - I did not suggest that @barnabymarder was on the right of the Labour Party. Then why contrast him only with left-wingers?
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 7, 2019 21:33:53 GMT
Whoa, don't associate me with the remarks of @skybluecolu And - once again - I did not suggest that @barnabymarder was on the right of the Labour Party. Then why contrast him only with left-wingers? I wasn't contrasting him with anyone. I was pointing out that it is as much his party as that of figures (some of them recent arrivals) currently in the ascendancy.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 7, 2019 21:36:44 GMT
Yeah, sure.
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Post by Andrew_S on Aug 7, 2019 21:49:16 GMT
Mary Creagh picks up on David Herdson's resignation from the Tories.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Aug 7, 2019 22:17:38 GMT
You asked me a question. I answered it. But you decided you knew better than I did what I was saying. So not much point engaging further really.
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Post by Merseymike on Aug 7, 2019 22:49:23 GMT
I think carlton43 described himself as "right winger from the Blue Room" indicating he is a Tory right wing traditionalist who left the party in the Cameron era. I don't think that was saying you are on the right of Labour at all
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