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Post by tiberius on Feb 11, 2020 11:05:32 GMT
this has to be fake. That Kerry accent is actually comprehensible.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 11, 2020 11:14:42 GMT
Labour actually did really well in this election relative to expectations, despite losing one-third of their already massively shrunk vote. They were saved by preferences of smaller parties like S-PFP and SD and the SF surge aiding "left" party candidates up and down the ballot via transfers.
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Post by timrollpickering on Feb 11, 2020 11:59:58 GMT
this has to be fake. That Kerry accent is actually comprehensible. That's a big part of the Healy-Rae's appeal - they play up to the stereotype of Kerry exceptionalism as a way of emphasising their local roots against Dublin. Imagine an English independent for the West Country who spoke with a Mummerset accent.
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Post by tiberius on Feb 11, 2020 12:07:45 GMT
this has to be fake. That Kerry accent is actually comprehensible. That's a big part of the Healy-Rae's appeal - they play up to the stereotype of Kerry exceptionalism as a way of emphasising their local roots against Dublin. Imagine an English independent for the West Country who spoke with a Mummerset accent. It's hard to argue against the intelligence of their approach. Its generated much success after all. Few political families have succeeded in electing two of their own in the same constituency in the same election.
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Post by Davıd Boothroyd on Feb 11, 2020 12:19:46 GMT
What is the nearest UK equivalent? Possibly the Shing family who are the largest opposition group to the Conservatives on Wealden district council.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 11, 2020 12:29:46 GMT
this has to be fake. That Kerry accent is actually comprehensible. That is the longest I've heard a Kerryman talk for without mentioning GAA.
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 11, 2020 12:48:05 GMT
What is the nearest UK equivalent? Possibly the Shing family who are the largest opposition group to the Conservatives on Wealden district council. Independent Democrats.
I've found a story that they used to be Lib Dems but were booted out of the party around 2006. Unfortunately the link is dead so I don't know why. Anyone have any further info?
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 11, 2020 12:59:28 GMT
What is the nearest UK equivalent? Possibly the Shing family who are the largest opposition group to the Conservatives on Wealden district council. In the 1999 elections to the Scottish Parliament, Fergus Ewing was elected MSP for Inverness East, Nairn & Lochaber, his wife Margaret was elected in the neighbouring Moray constituency (having been the MP since 1987), and his ma Winnie was elected from the Highlands & Islands regional list (which covered both IENL and Moray, and the area for which she had been MEP between 1979 and the month after that Holyrood election).
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Feb 11, 2020 12:59:31 GMT
Small-town political family mafias are a joy, and sometimes a nightmare.
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Post by relique on Feb 11, 2020 12:59:31 GMT
Well, PR-STV really does wonders for proportional representation:
Party // % of 1st pref // % of seats FG // 20,86% // 21,88% FF // 22,18% // 23,75% SF // 24,53% // 23,13% Ind // 12,10% // 11,88% Greens // 6,96% // 7,50% Labour // 4,38% // 3,75% Soc-Dem // 2,90% // 3,75% PBPA // 1,89% // 1,88% AAA // 0,54% // 0,63% Rise // 0,21% // 0,63% Aontu // 1,90% // 0,63%
So FG, FF, Soc-Dem, Greens, S-PBPA a little bit over-represented, SF, Labour, Aontu, Independents a little bit under-represented.
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timmullen1
Labour
Closing account as BossMan declines to respond to messages seeking support.
Posts: 11,823
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Post by timmullen1 on Feb 11, 2020 13:06:49 GMT
What is the nearest UK equivalent? Possibly the Shing family who are the largest opposition group to the Conservatives on Wealden district council. In the 1999 elections to the Scottish Parliament, Fergus Ewing was elected MSP for Inverness East, Nairn & Lochaber, his wife Margaret was elected in the neighbouring Moray constituency (having been the MP since 1987), and his ma Winnie was elected from the Highlands & Islands regional list (which covered both IENL and Moray, and the area for which she had been MEP between 1979 and the month after that Holyrood election). And Fergus’ sister Annabelle has represented Cowdenbeath since 2016.
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mboy
Liberal
Listen. Think. Speak.
Posts: 22,387
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Post by mboy on Feb 11, 2020 13:43:51 GMT
Well, PR-STV really does wonders for proportional representation: Party // % of 1st pref // % of seats FG // 20,86% // 21,88% FF // 22,18% // 23,75% SF // 24,53% // 23,13% Ind // 12,10% // 11,88% Greens // 6,96% // 7,50% Labour // 4,38% // 3,75% Soc-Dem // 2,90% // 3,75% PBPA // 1,89% // 1,88% AAA // 0,54% // 0,63% Rise // 0,21% // 0,63% Aontu // 1,90% // 0,63% So FG, FF, Soc-Dem, Greens, S-PBPA a little bit over-represented, SF, Labour, Aontu, Independents a little bit under-represented. It's important to remember that STV is *not* a proportional voting system. It is a preferencing system that tends to give increasingly proportional results as the number of seats grows. But in extreme cases, where a party gets no 2nd prefs and is just below the quota, it can give very disproportionate results. Having said that, even though this result produced the "wrong" winner, its overall proportionality was pretty good. Personally, I've gone off STV over the years (Lib Dems heresy!) and now favour regular MMP (my favourite is AV+, but that will never be implemented).
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
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Member is Online
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Post by Tony Otim on Feb 11, 2020 14:17:50 GMT
Well, PR-STV really does wonders for proportional representation: Party // % of 1st pref // % of seats FG // 20,86% // 21,88% FF // 22,18% // 23,75% SF // 24,53% // 23,13% Ind // 12,10% // 11,88% Greens // 6,96% // 7,50% Labour // 4,38% // 3,75% Soc-Dem // 2,90% // 3,75% PBPA // 1,89% // 1,88% AAA // 0,54% // 0,63% Rise // 0,21% // 0,63% Aontu // 1,90% // 0,63% So FG, FF, Soc-Dem, Greens, S-PBPA a little bit over-represented, SF, Labour, Aontu, Independents a little bit under-represented. It's important to remember that STV is *not* a proportional voting system. It is a preferencing system that tends to give increasingly proportional results as the number of seats grows. But in extreme cases, where a party gets no 2nd prefs and is just below the quota, it can give very disproportionate results. Having said that, even though this result produced the "wrong" winner, its overall proportionality was pretty good. Personally, I've gone off STV over the years (Lib Dems heresy!) and now favour regular MMP (my favourite is AV+, but that will never be implemented). Isn't the main reason it's a wrong winner result due to SF undernominating rather than anything about the system itself?
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Post by Arthur Figgis on Feb 11, 2020 14:20:46 GMT
What is the nearest UK equivalent? Possibly the Shing family who are the largest opposition group to the Conservatives on Wealden district council. Independent Democrats.
I've found a story that they used to be Lib Dems but were booted out of the party around 2006. Unfortunately the link is dead so I don't know why. Anyone have any further info?
The article with the dead link does not give anything away anyway.
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Post by finsobruce on Feb 11, 2020 14:27:22 GMT
Independent Democrats.
I've found a story that they used to be Lib Dems but were booted out of the party around 2006. Unfortunately the link is dead so I don't know why. Anyone have any further info?
The article with the dead link does not give anything away anyway. Thanks Mr Figgis.
Does any Mother know?
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Post by relique on Feb 11, 2020 14:34:23 GMT
It's important to remember that STV is *not* a proportional voting system. It is a preferencing system that tends to give increasingly proportional results as the number of seats grows. But in extreme cases, where a party gets no 2nd prefs and is just below the quota, it can give very disproportionate results. Having said that, even though this result produced the "wrong" winner, its overall proportionality was pretty good. Personally, I've gone off STV over the years (Lib Dems heresy!) and now favour regular MMP (my favourite is AV+, but that will never be implemented). Isn't the main reason it's a wrong winner result due to SF undernominating rather than anything about the system itself?
For SF against SD, Greens and S-PBPA over-representation, probably ! But for Labour's under-representation against FF and FG's over-representation, probably not. Labour might have been quite transfer-unfriendly this time (left-leaning voters still critical of Labour's involvement in 2011-2016's government ? )
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Post by heslingtonian on Feb 11, 2020 14:46:08 GMT
What is the nearest UK equivalent? Possibly the Shing family who are the largest opposition group to the Conservatives on Wealden district council. Another option would be the Oxford family on Colchester District Council. I think it’s mother, father and son. Three members and hold a Cabinet seat as NOC.
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Post by hullenedge on Feb 11, 2020 15:01:33 GMT
Well, PR-STV really does wonders for proportional representation: Party // % of 1st pref // % of seats FG // 20,86% // 21,88% FF // 22,18% // 23,75% SF // 24,53% // 23,13% Ind // 12,10% // 11,88% Greens // 6,96% // 7,50% Labour // 4,38% // 3,75% Soc-Dem // 2,90% // 3,75% PBPA // 1,89% // 1,88% AAA // 0,54% // 0,63% Rise // 0,21% // 0,63% Aontu // 1,90% // 0,63% So FG, FF, Soc-Dem, Greens, S-PBPA a little bit over-represented, SF, Labour, Aontu, Independents a little bit under-represented. It's important to remember that STV is *not* a proportional voting system. It is a preferencing system that tends to give increasingly proportional results as the number of seats grows. But in extreme cases, where a party gets no 2nd prefs and is just below the quota, it can give very disproportionate results. Having said that, even though this result produced the "wrong" winner, its overall proportionality was pretty good. Personally, I've gone off STV over the years (Lib Dems heresy!) and now favour regular MMP (my favourite is AV+, but that will never be implemented). AV+ was Garrett Fitzgerald's preferred system. He came to loathe STV (there's a forward, written by him, in one of the Nealon's Guides).
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Post by tiberius on Feb 11, 2020 15:04:56 GMT
It's important to remember that STV is *not* a proportional voting system. It is a preferencing system that tends to give increasingly proportional results as the number of seats grows. But in extreme cases, where a party gets no 2nd prefs and is just below the quota, it can give very disproportionate results. Having said that, even though this result produced the "wrong" winner, its overall proportionality was pretty good. Personally, I've gone off STV over the years (Lib Dems heresy!) and now favour regular MMP (my favourite is AV+, but that will never be implemented). AV+ was Garrett Fitzgerald's preferred system. He came to loathe STV (there's a forward, written by him, in one of the Nealon's Guides). I've heard that during multiple points in the 20th century FF mulled adopting First Past the Post. But they could never seriously bring themselves to seriously push it.
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Post by hullenedge on Feb 11, 2020 15:11:17 GMT
AV+ was Garrett Fitzgerald's preferred system. He came to loathe STV (there's a forward, written by him, in one of the Nealon's Guides). I've heard that during multiple points in the 20th century FF mulled adopting First Past the Post. But they could never seriously bring themselves to seriously push it. They did push it... 1959 Referendum (narrow loss) then 1968 (big loss). Called it 'simple majority system'.
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