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Post by johnloony on Mar 28, 2018 20:31:32 GMT
. It’s an interesting seat: I can’t think of many that voted for four different parties in four elections (Tory 55, Independent Tory in 59 although that’s misleading if the above is true, Liberal in 64 and Labour in 66) and although I totally expect someone to come up with something its the only seat that instantly springs to mind as one which has been represented by all four major Scottish parties since 45 . Ynys Môn |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 28, 2018 20:41:57 GMT
Going back a very long time, but David Robertson moved from the then safe Conservative seat of Streatham to Caithness & Sutherland at the 1950 election, a 3 way marginal with a majority of 6! He went on to represent the constituency until 1964. Which must also be one of the longest distance switches in history! |
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Post by carlton43 on Mar 28, 2018 20:46:44 GMT
Not an expert on the politics of Caithness; my understanding was that when he contested the seat as an Independent in 1959 he wasn’t opposed by and had the support of the local Unionists; basically having the best of both worlds; the support of a strong party organisation without being bound to the policies of that party. When he stood down in 64 there was a dispute over candidate selection between the Official Unionist organisation and those loyal to Mr Robertson leading to two Unionists running with the Liberals winning the following election and Labour finished second ahead of both Unionists. I’m pretty sure the Liberal vote was bigger than the combined Unionist vote but it’s very simplistic to say that they would have won anyway; you’d think that a united party would have been more focused and managed to get more votes although it’s not quantifiable. It’s an interesting seat: I can’t think of many that voted for four different parties in four elections (Tory 55, Independent Tory in 59 although that’s misleading if the above is true, Liberal in 64 and Labour in 66) and although I totally expect someone to come up with something its the only seat that instantly springs to mind as one which has been represented by all four major Scottish parties since 45 - East Dunbartonshire is another although the pre-83 seat was... very weird (one of those non-contiguous seats that Scotland didn’t get rid of until 83, it and the old Stirling and Falkirk May have been the last two) and from memory I don’t know how much of Strathkelvin and Bearsden ended up in the current East Dunbartonshire. None of this is at all related to the topic but it might be of interest. I come from the Sutherland part of the seat so this is all very interesting, thank you  It is a seat that has been Liberal, Conservative, Independent Conservative, Independent, Labour, LibDem and SNP, and thus quite unmatched in the post-War era. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 20:46:59 GMT
. It’s an interesting seat: I can’t think of many that voted for four different parties in four elections (Tory 55, Independent Tory in 59 although that’s misleading if the above is true, Liberal in 64 and Labour in 66) and although I totally expect someone to come up with something its the only seat that instantly springs to mind as one which has been represented by all four major Scottish parties since 45 . Ynys Môn East Dunbartonshire |
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Post by uhurasmazda on Mar 28, 2018 22:22:49 GMT
Galloway's move from Bethnal Green & Bow to Poplar & Limehouse, and Martin Bell's move from Tatton to Brentwood & Ongar spring to mind - both to fulfil promises to only sit for one session, both from seats they might have held to ones where they lost. Similarly, Hugh Lawson won the Skipton by-election of 1944 for the Common Wealth Party, promising to only see out the rest of the Parliament. In 1945, therefore, he shifted over to Harrow West, where the popularity or otherwise of the Common Wealth brand was untested and which had an incumbent Tory MP. Lawson polled 4%. The Leader of the Common Wealth Party, Sir Richard Acland, had been MP for Barnstaple since 1935, but decided to contest Putney in 1945 for some reason. He received 8% of the vote there. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Mar 28, 2018 22:28:25 GMT
I come from the Sutherland part of the seat so this is all very interesting, thank you It is a seat that has been Liberal, Conservative, Independent Conservative, Independent, Labour, LibDem and SNP, and thus quite unmatched in the post-War era. And SDP surely? |
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Post by greenhert on Mar 28, 2018 22:43:29 GMT
Yes, via way of Robert Maclennan.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 23:05:48 GMT
Inverness as well?
CON until 1964
LIB 1964-1997
LAB 1997-2005
LD 2005-2015
SNP 2015-
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 23:20:05 GMT
Not an expert on the politics of Caithness; my understanding was that when he contested the seat as an Independent in 1959 he wasn’t opposed by and had the support of the local Unionists; basically having the best of both worlds; the support of a strong party organisation without being bound to the policies of that party. When he stood down in 64 there was a dispute over candidate selection between the Official Unionist organisation and those loyal to Mr Robertson leading to two Unionists running with the Liberals winning the following election and Labour finished second ahead of both Unionists. I’m pretty sure the Liberal vote was bigger than the combined Unionist vote but it’s very simplistic to say that they would have won anyway; you’d think that a united party would have been more focused and managed to get more votes although it’s not quantifiable. It’s an interesting seat: I can’t think of many that voted for four different parties in four elections (Tory 55, Independent Tory in 59 although that’s misleading if the above is true, Liberal in 64 and Labour in 66) and although I totally expect someone to come up with something its the only seat that instantly springs to mind as one which has been represented by all four major Scottish parties since 45 - East Dunbartonshire is another although the pre-83 seat was... very weird (one of those non-contiguous seats that Scotland didn’t get rid of until 83, it and the old Stirling and Falkirk May have been the last two) and from memory I don’t know how much of Strathkelvin and Bearsden ended up in the current East Dunbartonshire. None of this is at all related to the topic but it might be of interest. I come from the Sutherland part of the seat so this is all very interesting, thank you West or east coast? |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 23:28:55 GMT
Inverness as well? CON until 1964 LIB 1964-1997 LAB 1997-2005 LD 2005-2015 SNP 2015- Yes and no I would say. Similarly to East Dunbartonshire, Inverness has been through some major boundary changes over the years. I would say that the addition of Easter Ross to the old Caithness and Sutherland constituency in 1997 was less drastic. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 28, 2018 23:31:55 GMT
I come from the Sutherland part of the seat so this is all very interesting, thank you West or east coast? West coast, North Assynt more specifically. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 0:12:10 GMT
Inverness as well? CON until 1964 LIB 1964-1997 LAB 1997-2005 LD 2005-2015 SNP 2015- Yes and no I would say. Similarly to East Dunbartonshire, Inverness has been through some major boundary changes over the years. I would say that the addition of Easter Ross to the old Caithness and Sutherland constituency in 1997 was less drastic. I don’t think the current East Dunbartonshire is that different from the 1974-83 version. I think the current East Dunbartonshire would’ve been Conservative in Feb 1974 and Labour in 1979. I think the seat counts as an example of 4 parties holding it since WWII. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 0:12:52 GMT
It is really a chicken run if you don't do it by choice? Happy for thread to proceed by consensus, but was thinking in particular of people who *chose* to move from a safe seat to a marginal as a gesture of confidence/recklessness (delete as appropriate). I wouldn't include incumbents moving to no hope seats (which is effectively retirement) or deselected members moving to their next best prospect. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 0:36:10 GMT
It is really a chicken run if you don't do it by choice? Happy for thread to proceed by consensus, but was thinking in particular of people who *chose* to move from a safe seat to a marginal as a gesture of confidence/recklessness (delete as appropriate). I wouldn't include incumbents moving to no hope seats (which is effectively retirement) or deselected members moving to their next best prospect. I agree. I wouldn’t count deselected MPs. So I’d count Sproat and not Myles in 1983. |
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 0:40:46 GMT
This isn’t an example but in 1987 Shirley Williams decided to fight Cambridge instead of Crosby while the latter was clearly a better prospect for the SDP.
Bill Pitt moved from Croydon North West where he lost in 1983 to one of the Thanet seats unlike Bruce Douglas-Mann who fought again in 1987 despite coming 3rd in 1983.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 0:46:20 GMT
In 1983 Ian Grist moved from Cardiff North to Cardiff Central.
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Sibboleth
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Post by Sibboleth on Mar 29, 2018 1:19:36 GMT
In 1983 Ian Grist moved from Cardiff North to Cardiff Central. The old Cardiff North was abolished at boundary changes and most went into the new seat (which also took in a substantial part of Cardiff S.E.). The main predecessor for Cardiff North was actually Cardiff N.W. I don’t think the current East Dunbartonshire is that different from the 1974-83 version. Very different actually - it included Cumbernauld and didn't include Milngavie. |
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Post by IceAgeComing on Mar 29, 2018 3:23:17 GMT
Its an incredibly different seat hence my caveat: the pre-reform boundaries for Dunbartonshire were... bizarre and weren't contiguous with Cumbernauld and Kirkinilloch being divided from the rest by Stirlingshire and Lanarkshire and that is clear in the parliamentary seats. The 74 era seat was basically Cumbernauld, Kirkintilloch and the surrounding area in one section and then Bearsden was also in the seat despite no geographic connection. The modern seat - and I'm probably making a hash of describing it, I'm not from the area nor have I ever really been there - is like Milngavie, the east bit of Bearden, most of Bishopbriggs and western bits of Kirkintolloch. The 83-05 seat of Strathkelvin and Bearsden is a lot more similar (lacks the Milngavie bit and goes up north into the hills but other than that is mostly the same) and elected a Tory MP in 1983 so you might decide to count that in which case it is a seat that elected MPs from the four main Scottish parties.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 29, 2018 7:25:41 GMT
Its an incredibly different seat hence my caveat: the pre-reform boundaries for Dunbartonshire were... bizarre and weren't contiguous with Cumbernauld and Kirkinilloch being divided from the rest by Stirlingshire and Lanarkshire and that is clear in the parliamentary seats. The 74 era seat was basically Cumbernauld, Kirkintilloch and the surrounding area in one section and then Bearsden was also in the seat despite no geographic connection. The modern seat - and I'm probably making a hash of describing it, I'm not from the area nor have I ever really been there - is like Milngavie, the east bit of Bearden, most of Bishopbriggs and western bits of Kirkintolloch. The 83-05 seat of Strathkelvin and Bearsden is a lot more similar (lacks the Milngavie bit and goes up north into the hills but other than that is mostly the same) and elected a Tory MP in 1983 so you might decide to count that in which case it is a seat that elected MPs from the four main Scottish parties. Yes I’d count that. |
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Post by froome on Mar 29, 2018 8:08:11 GMT
To me, the most interesting aspect of reverse chicken runs is when leading figures in a party who hold a safe seat move to stand in a marginal seat because they believe their fame will work in their party's favour. It often doesn't.
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