Favourite by-election results?

[johnloony]

Mar 10, 2018 8:56:06 GMT Harry Hayfield said:

My favourite one is the only one that I have had a personal interest in, and that is Ceredigion in the millennium. First by-election of the 21st century (and that's from the statement that Peter Brooke made in the Commons in 1997 stating that the millennium would start on January 1st 2000)

Just because Peter Brooke told a lie to the House of Commons, it doesn't mean that we normal people are willing to stand idly by and be massacred by those who are hell-bent on the total destruction of civilisation.

[Foggy]

Mar 10, 2018 13:18:04 GMT @fraser said:

Mar 10, 2018 1:40:50 GMT Foggy said:

Do universities not teach the rules about prepositions and pronouns these days?? 

Why have you used two question marks?

The additional question mark was employed in order to demonstrate heightened incredulity at the extent to which standards of grammar have fallen at our institutes of higher learning, which is possibly frowned upon by a style guide somewhere. 

If you could see the way I dress, you'd know that I do not deal in matters of style.

[East Anglian Lefty]

You can be a prescriptivist in terms of grammar and punctuation, or a prescriptivist in terms of neither. The latter is of course the more rational stance, but at least be consistent.

[andrewteale]

Mar 10, 2018 20:17:48 GMT Foggy said:

Mar 10, 2018 13:18:04 GMT @fraser said:

Why have you used two question marks?

The additional question mark was employed in order to demonstrate heightened incredulity at the extent to which standards of grammar have fallen at our institutes of higher learning, which is possibly frowned upon by a style guide somewhere. 

If you could see the way I dress, you'd know that I do not deal in matters of style.

You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

[Foggy]

Mar 10, 2018 20:40:51 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

You can be a prescriptivist in terms of grammar and punctuation, or a prescriptivist in terms of neither. The latter is of course the more rational stance, but at least be consistent.

I am a prescriptivist when it comes to matters of fact, though I think there's a hierarchy in that regard whereby it's not only possible to be more of stickler for spelling than for grammar, and for grammar than punctuation, but actually wiser to do so. That makes such a stance far from inconsistent. As Davıd Boothroyd often points out, many 'rules' are arbitrary or not as old as we think. I believe we should seek to guard those we think are useful for clarity of thought and the enrichment of our language.

Adding an extra question mark when genuinely exasperated does not count as an error. To be fair to Fraser, he didn't specifically say that he thought it was one.

[Foggy]

Mar 10, 2018 20:41:14 GMT andrewteale said:

Mar 10, 2018 20:17:48 GMT Foggy said:

The additional question mark was employed in order to demonstrate heightened incredulity at the extent to which standards of grammar have fallen at our institutes of higher learning, which is possibly frowned upon by a style guide somewhere. 

If you could see the way I dress, you'd know that I do not deal in matters of style.

You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

Well, we are both white straight males of a certain age and based in Somerset.

He is a far more dapper and well-spoken gentleman, though. The comparison also falls flat when you consider his political and religious views.

[froome]

Mar 10, 2018 21:08:58 GMT Foggy said:

Mar 10, 2018 20:41:14 GMT andrewteale said:

You are Jacob Rees-Mogg and I claim my £5.

Well, we are both white straight males of a certain age and based in Somerset.

He is a far more dapper and well-spoken gentleman, though. The comparison also falls flat when you consider his political and religious views.

The bits of Somerset you both live in are, shall we say, probably somewhat different as well.

[East Anglian Lefty]

Mar 10, 2018 21:05:19 GMT Foggy said:

Mar 10, 2018 20:40:51 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

You can be a prescriptivist in terms of grammar and punctuation, or a prescriptivist in terms of neither. The latter is of course the more rational stance, but at least be consistent.

I am a prescriptivist when it comes to matters of fact, though I think there's a hierarchy in that regard whereby it's not only possible to be more of stickler for spelling than for grammar, and for grammar than punctuation, but actually wiser to do so. That makes such a stance far from inconsistent. As Davıd Boothroyd often points out, many 'rules' are arbitrary or not as old as we think. I believe we should seek to guard those we think are useful for clarity of thought and the enrichment of our language.

Adding an extra question mark when genuinely exasperated does not count as an error. To be fair to Fraser, he didn't specifically say that he thought it was one.

And can you explain why the distinction between the nominative and accusative form of the pronoun affects the clarity of the sentence you were complaining about in any way? It's a fossilised artefact, which wouldn't even impede meaning in a heavily-inflected language, let alone a weakly-inflected one like modern English.

[yellowperil]

Mar 11, 2018 10:03:32 GMT froome said:

Mar 10, 2018 21:08:58 GMT Foggy said:

Well, we are both white straight males of a certain age and based in Somerset.

He is a far more dapper and well-spoken gentleman, though. The comparison also falls flat when you consider his political and religious views.

The bits of Somerset you both live in are, shall we say, probably somewhat different as well.

thankfully

[Foggy]

Mar 11, 2018 10:40:40 GMT East Anglian Lefty said:

Mar 10, 2018 21:05:19 GMT Foggy said:

I am a prescriptivist when it comes to matters of fact, though I think there's a hierarchy in that regard whereby it's not only possible to be more of stickler for spelling than for grammar, and for grammar than punctuation, but actually wiser to do so. That makes such a stance far from inconsistent. As Davıd Boothroyd often points out, many 'rules' are arbitrary or not as old as we think. I believe we should seek to guard those we think are useful for clarity of thought and the enrichment of our language.

Adding an extra question mark when genuinely exasperated does not count as an error. To be fair to Fraser, he didn't specifically say that he thought it was one.

And can you explain why the distinction between the nominative and accusative form of the pronoun affects the clarity of the sentence you were complaining about in any way? It's a fossilised artefact, which wouldn't even impede meaning in a heavily-inflected language, let alone a weakly-inflected one like modern English.

The difference is between the object and subject forms of the pronoun. English doesn't have an accusative case, because we don't make the distinction between direct and indirect objects since we figured out there was no point doing that about 1150 years ago.

You're not wrong that it doesn't impede meaning these days. If in doubt, I'd say go for the more natural-sounding phrase. 'Between you and I' is a transatlantic attempt at a hypercorrection that has unfortunately now found its way over here as a linguistic nuisance, because moronic Americans don't understand how the word 'and' works. 'Between you and me' is not only correct usage, but as a bonus it sounds like it rolls off the tongue much more naturally as well.

[ricmk]

The first by-election I was ever involved with was Littleborough and Saddleworth. My dad took me delivering for the day. I don't remember much else about it, I must have been about 12 or so, but in Eastleigh in 2013 on polling day, I picked up a Lib Dem who looked a bit lost and drove him back somewhere, and soon realised it was Chris Davies, the winner in Littleborough and Saddleworth that day 20 or so years earlier. So not the first time he owed me

[mrtoad]

Favourite early personal memory (though I vaguely recall Crosby 1981) was Fulham 1986. Felt that the Labour show was back on the road - good candidate in Nick Raynsford, really competent and clever campaign, and although the Labour hold on Fulham was only brief it was a sort of turning of the tide.

Bradford North and Bootle (1) in 1990 were fun in different ways.

Labour people I know who campaigned there loved Eddisbury (1999) - a pleasant place, a good campaign, and no hard feelings about the result either.

Just for giving a moment to cheer when everything else was going so badly wrong, Sarah Olney's win in Richmond Park has few rivals.

[andrew]

Glasgow East 2008 was delicious and who thought back then that a decade later, Labour would have just 1/7 seats in Glasgow?

[hullenedge]

Earliest memory - Woolwich West. There was some debate that folk would not vote for a Conservative party led by a woman. Mrs T had quite a ding-dong with that anti-EEC chap whilst out canvassing (clip probably in BBC archives).

[greenhert]

Eastleigh by-election 2013. The first one I properly paid attention to, having joined the Green Party a few months earlier. Not just because of the closeness of the result but because there were valuable lessons to be learned from it.

[Deleted]

I've always been of the opinion that Farage would've won Eastleigh had he stood.

[casualobserver]

Mar 9, 2018 23:56:27 GMT @conservativeestimate said:

Beaconsfield 1982 - good to see Tony Blair lose an election for once!

The most memorable thing about the Beaconsfield by-election was the election night special film of Michael Foot campaigning from the top of a moving open-topped double decker bus. Unfortunately Labour appeared unaware of just how leafy the Beaconsfield Constituency was, so we were treated to a hilarious spectacle as lower and lower branches filled with foliage swept right down the top of the bus, eventually stopping all attempts by Michael Foot to use the tannoy system to get the Labour message out. It was an accident which was fortuitously symptomatic of the wider political car crash that Michael Foot proved to be as Labour leader.

[heslingtonian]

Mar 12, 2018 3:21:35 GMT casualobserver said:

Mar 9, 2018 23:56:27 GMT @conservativeestimate said:

Beaconsfield 1982 - good to see Tony Blair lose an election for once!

The most memorable thing about the Beaconsfield by-election was the election night special film of Michael Foot campaigning from the top of a moving open-topped double decker bus. Unfortunately Labour appeared unaware of just how leafy the Beaconsfield Constituency was, so we were treated to a hilarious spectacle as lower and lower branches filled with foliage swept right down the top of the bus, eventually stopping all attempts by Michael Foot to use the tannoy system to get the Labour message out. It was an accident which was fortuitously symptomatic of the wider political car crash that Michael Foot proved to be as Labour leader.

There’s a brilliant scene in the 90s documentary ‘Labour- the Wilderness Years’ of Michael Foot standing on top of a moving double decker bus totally oblivious as a concrete bridge rapidly heads towards him. Thankfully one of his minders taps him on the shoulder and tells him to duck in the nick of time.

[Chris from Brum]

Mar 10, 2018 9:28:46 GMT AdminSTB said:

I would argue that there are no good breweries in Dudley proper, but my definition of Dudley proper is quite small. It's a Black Country thing.

Unfortunately, you were about 10 years too late for Simpkiss, which was one of the best and sold to Greenall's and closed when it was still profitable.

Agreed.  Holden's is in Woodsetton, near Sedgley, and Bathams is in Delph, Brierley Hill.  The Sarah Hughes brewery is also in Sedgley, behind the Beacon Hotel.  So arguably it's Sedgley, where I used to live (next door to Teddy Holden, owner of the brewery, as it happened), that's the beer capital of the nation. 

[The Bishop]

Disappointment followed 1997 soon enough as well.

I agree those were brilliant times, but more recent history can't be forgotten.