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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 15:14:48 GMT
Aside from the more obvious gripes I have always particularly disliked the name Mid Worcestershire which gives little idea where the constituency is. Droitwich and Evesham would be vastly more suitable. Totally agree. "Mid Somewhereshire" constituencies often tend to be less than satisfactory. Probably it's because they're often cobbled together as the extra seat awarded to a county from leftover bits of oversized seats. As a result they often lack any real focus. This is the mostly the case with the Mid Dorset & North Poole, although I'm not sure there's a better name for it, and it does represent a community to about as close as a roughly fixed size constituency can. The proposed new Mid Dorset constituency, however, is entirely East of the centre of the county (although so is MDNP) and reaches the border with Hampshire, so I don't really see why it can't be called East Dorset - except for the fact that it is rather different to the extant-for-now district of the same name. The district was once known as Wimborne, which would probably be the best name for the constituency if it had to take the name of a settlement.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 15:18:01 GMT
Totally agree. "Mid Somewhereshire" constituencies often tend to be less than satisfactory. Probably it's because they're often cobbled together as the extra seat awarded to a county from leftover bits of oversized seats. As a result they often lack any real focus. This is the mostly the case with the Mid Dorset & North Poole, although I'm not sure there's a better name for it, and it does represent a community to about as close as a roughly fixed size constituency can. The proposed new Mid Dorset constituency, however, is entirely East of the centre of the county (although so is MDNP) and reaches the border with Hampshire, so I don't really see why it can't be called East Dorset - except for the fact that it is rather different to the extant-for-now district of the same name. The district was once known as Wimborne, which would probably be the best name for the constituency if it had to take the name of a settlement. This is why I prefer town names, even in strings of three and four. If a catch all name doesn't fit then put together locations like a jigsaw.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 12, 2018 15:54:12 GMT
Anywhere that includes a town/city name along with the county it is part of. Think Barrow and Furness, Perth and North Perthshire, Paisley and Renfrewshire North/South. The use of the word 'and' makes it sound like these places are not part of the county. Barrow and Furness doesn’t compare as neither is the County; Barrow is the major town, Furness is the peninsula that is mostly rural but also includes Ulverston. I suppose there’s an argument for Barrow and Ulverston as a constituency name, as most people familiar with the Lake District will be familiar with Ulverston, but using Furness also geographically indicates it includes the area that Sellafield occupies. No it doesn't, Sellafield is miles away up the West Cumberland coast, and is anyway in the Copeland constituency.
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 15:55:09 GMT
Not so much a constituency name, but in the Scottish Parliament Regions the existence of both 'Central Scotland' and 'Mid Scotland and Fife' is a bit ridiculous, but to be honest I can't think of any solution that doesn't include long strings of county names.
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 12, 2018 15:57:23 GMT
I can't see any historical justification for the -barf pronunciation of Langbaurgh. I think this erroneous pronunciation probably developed from confusion about how to pronounce the name. There are plenty of English words ending in -gh where that is pronounced "f". There's also a Lake District fell - one of Wainwright's Northwestern group - called Barf. Same dog, more hair on it, as my old maths teacher used to say.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 12, 2018 16:23:36 GMT
Barrow and Furness doesn’t compare as neither is the County; Barrow is the major town, Furness is the peninsula that is mostly rural but also includes Ulverston. I suppose there’s an argument for Barrow and Ulverston as a constituency name, as most people familiar with the Lake District will be familiar with Ulverston, but using Furness also geographically indicates it includes the area that Sellafield occupies. No it doesn't, Sellafield is miles away up the West Cumberland coast, and is anyway in the Copeland constituency. Point taken, brain freeze; was getting my nuclear power and nuclear submarines jumbled. However the point remains about the peninsula.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on May 12, 2018 16:27:28 GMT
timmullen1 doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ Corrected the county bit. However, the point still stands. The 'and' makes it sound like Barrow is not in Furness, when in fact it is (Barrow-in-Furness).
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Post by swanarcadian on May 12, 2018 16:39:38 GMT
timmullen1 doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ Corrected the county bit. However, the point still stands. The 'and' makes it sound like Barrow is not in Furness, when in fact it is (Barrow-in-Furness). Welwyn Hatfield used to be Welwyn and Hatfield.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 12, 2018 16:39:55 GMT
timmullen1 doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ Corrected the county bit. However, the point still stands. The 'and' makes it sound like Barrow is not in Furness, when in fact it is (Barrow-in-Furness). Yes but the constituency is more than the town (which incidentally is only known as Barrow to the residents), it encompasses most of the Furness Peninsula, so unless you’re going to call it Barrow-in-Furness and Ulverston or the more geographically correct Barrow-in-Furness and South Furness then Barrow and Furness makes much more sense.
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jamie
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Post by jamie on May 12, 2018 16:44:14 GMT
timmullen1 doktorb🏳️🌈🏳️⚧️ Corrected the county bit. However, the point still stands. The 'and' makes it sound like Barrow is not in Furness, when in fact it is (Barrow-in-Furness). Yes but the constituency is more than the town (which incidentally is only known as Barrow to the residents), it encompasses most of the Furness Peninsula, so unless you’re going to call it Barrow-in-Furness and Ulverston or the more geographically correct Barrow-in-Furness and South Furness then Barrow and Furness makes much more sense. Barrow-in-Furness would be fine. It's the largest settlement and people would know where you mean.
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 12, 2018 16:50:35 GMT
Yes but the constituency is more than the town (which incidentally is only known as Barrow to the residents), it encompasses most of the Furness Peninsula, so unless you’re going to call it Barrow-in-Furness and Ulverston or the more geographically correct Barrow-in-Furness and South Furness then Barrow and Furness makes much more sense. Barrow-in-Furness would be fine. It's the largest settlement and people would know where you mean. But it’s inaccurate. It implies that the constituency boundaries are identical to the town boundaries which they are not. The constituency is the town plus most of the Peninsula. Should we go back to calling Staffordshire Moorlands just Leek despite the town only being the largest population settlement in the constituency, but ignore Horton, Rudyard, Biddulph, Knypersley, Endon etc., all of which are part of the wider Moorlands constituency?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 16:55:21 GMT
Yes but the constituency is more than the town (which incidentally is only known as Barrow to the residents), it encompasses most of the Furness Peninsula, so unless you’re going to call it Barrow-in-Furness and Ulverston or the more geographically correct Barrow-in-Furness and South Furness then Barrow and Furness makes much more sense. Barrow-in-Furness would be fine. It's the largest settlement and people would know where you mean. "Barrow in Furness" is the town. How far beyond the town does the constituency go?
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Chris from Brum
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Post by Chris from Brum on May 12, 2018 16:57:09 GMT
Barrow-in-Furness would be fine. It's the largest settlement and people would know where you mean. But it’s inaccurate. It implies that the constituency boundaries are identical to the town boundaries which they are not. The constituency is the town plus most of the Peninsula. Should we go back to calling Staffordshire Moorlands just Leek despite the town only being the largest population settlement in the constituency, but ignore Horton, Rudyard, Biddulph, Knypersley, Endon etc., all of which are part of the wider Moorlands constituency? The Witney constituency is identical to the district of West Oxfordshire. Which name should change?
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Post by Deleted on May 12, 2018 17:11:01 GMT
All this talk prompts me to reiterate the point carlton43 made that constituency names need to be an indicator, not a descriptor. Barrow and Furness is fine.
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Post by Philip Davies on May 12, 2018 17:17:09 GMT
But it’s inaccurate. It implies that the constituency boundaries are identical to the town boundaries which they are not. The constituency is the town plus most of the Peninsula. Should we go back to calling Staffordshire Moorlands just Leek despite the town only being the largest population settlement in the constituency, but ignore Horton, Rudyard, Biddulph, Knypersley, Endon etc., all of which are part of the wider Moorlands constituency? The Witney constituency is identical to the district of West Oxfordshire. Which name should change? Another example of acontiguous but not eponymous constituency is that of Chesham and Amersham. It is identical to the Chiltern district in Buckinghamshire.
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Post by therealriga on May 12, 2018 17:31:23 GMT
Not so much a constituency name, but in the Scottish Parliament Regions the existence of both 'Central Scotland' and 'Mid Scotland and Fife' is a bit ridiculous, but to be honest I can't think of any solution that doesn't include long strings of county names. The Northern Ireland parliament had four County Armagh seats from 1929 to 1973. From north to south North Armagh Central Armagh Mid Armagh South Armagh The middle two had "can't be arsed to think of an alternative" written all over them. Central Armagh could have easily been "Portadown." Mid Armaagh was centred on the town, later city, of Armagh and could have been called accordingly. There could have been confusion with the county, but it didn't stop them having an Antrim constituency elsewhere weirdly.
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Adrian
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Post by Adrian on May 12, 2018 18:02:11 GMT
I can't see any historical justification for the -barf pronunciation of Langbaurgh. I think this erroneous pronunciation probably developed from confusion about how to pronounce the name. There are plenty of English words ending in -gh where that is pronounced "f". There's also a Lake District fell - one of Wainwright's Northwestern group - called Barf. Same dog, more hair on it, as my old maths teacher used to say. You misunderstand me. I can't see any evidence that Langbaurgh was pronounced -barf until modern times.
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Post by Adam in Stroud on May 12, 2018 18:33:11 GMT
The Witney constituency is identical to the district of West Oxfordshire. Which name should change? Another example of acontiguous but not eponymous constituency is that of Chesham and Amersham. It is identical to the Chiltern district in Buckinghamshire. Contrariwise Cotswolds constituency is eponymous with Cotswold District Council but quite a bit bigger.
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Post by Pete Whitehead on May 12, 2018 18:43:27 GMT
Another example of acontiguous but not eponymous constituency is that of Chesham and Amersham. It is identical to the Chiltern district in Buckinghamshire. Contrariwise Cotswolds constituency is eponymous with Cotswold District Council but quite a bit bigger. Yes but there are scores of constituencies like that (or ones which are eponymous with a local authority but cover a slightly smaller area. There are two other examples similar to Cotswold in Gloucestershire alone - Forest of Dean and Tewkesbury and three others which take the name of a district but don;t include all of it (Cheltenham, Gloucester and Stroud). The Chiltern/Chesham & Amersham and west Oxfordshire/Witney kind of scenarios are quite rare though. I am struggling to think of any others a the moment. Tandridge district and the East Surrey constituency used to have the same boundaries but have not done so for some time. Rushmoor and Aldershot are very close now but not exact
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timmullen1
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Post by timmullen1 on May 12, 2018 19:14:09 GMT
Barrow-in-Furness would be fine. It's the largest settlement and people would know where you mean. "Barrow in Furness" is the town. How far beyond the town does the constituency go? It includes nine Wards of South Lakeland DC (five of which comprise Ulverston). According to Google Maps Barrow and Ulverston are 10.5 miles apart, but some of the other Wards are beyond Ulverston, so probably getting for 12+ miles outside the town itself.
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