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Post by freefair on Dec 17, 2017 16:13:43 GMT
ProGreenSsives- Nicola Sturgeon vs Vince Cable Why do you imagine that the SNP would belong in this outfit? Their raison d'être is an independent Scotland... Doesn't have to be the whole SNP, who I assume would be spread around, but Sturgeon herself is the model of centre-left liberal leader with an environmentalist & non-interventionist streak. Very similar to the German Greens or LibDem left. |
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Post by carlton43 on Dec 17, 2017 16:32:04 GMT
For hedgehog.
This was not set out as my perfect paradigm but as my idea of a model that might be attractive to quite a broad strand of the electorate who would 'buy' it as a compound 'offer' despite preferring some bits more than others. You detect 'Tory' influences more than conservative ones and suspect it is me injecting my 'want list'. It isn't. It is my genuine attempt at a construct to fit the nature of the thread.
I know that we each have significant reservations about each other. But we do have quite a bit of core gut cross-over on the major theme of a rather different political/physical/mental shape to our society.
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J.G.Harston
Lib Dem
Leave-voting Brexit-supporting Liberal Democrat
Posts: 14,762 
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Post by J.G.Harston on Dec 17, 2017 16:47:29 GMT
Of course, in my scenario I envisage ... Orange book LDs joining the Liberals (of course in a still discomforting alliance with libertarian eurosceptics). Aargh! Man the barricades! |
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Post by freefair on Dec 17, 2017 17:11:11 GMT
Quite! the point is of course that despite their differences on the European question, in terms of being economically & socially liberal, they agree on more than they disagree.
A plotform with policies like legalising "soft" drugs, reducing corporation tax, slashing bureaucracy, having good UK-US relations, is something Jeremy Browne & Daniel Hannan alike could sign up to.
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 17, 2017 17:25:26 GMT
I would have: The Labour Party The Tradition (old Tory?) Party The Liberal Conservative Party The One Nation PartyThe Libertarian Party The National PartyThe characteristics of the highlighted parties being what exactly? |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 17, 2017 17:26:58 GMT
Why do you imagine that the SNP would belong in this outfit? Their raison d'être is an independent Scotland... Doesn't have to be the whole SNP, who I assume would be spread around, but Sturgeon herself is the model of centre-left liberal leader with an environmentalist & non-interventionist streak. Very similar to the German Greens or LibDem left. What mushrooms have you been eating? |
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Post by freefair on Dec 17, 2017 17:29:23 GMT
I just as easily Balkanise the left, benji!
The Marxist Alliance
Momentum
Compass
The Greens
Christian Socialist Movement
The Social Liberals
Labour Unity
Progress
The Libertarian-Conservative Alliance!
Of course under proportional representation, they wouldn't always be "splitting the vote"
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Post by freefair on Dec 17, 2017 17:30:26 GMT
Doesn't have to be the whole SNP, who I assume would be spread around, but Sturgeon herself is the model of centre-left liberal leader with an environmentalist & non-interventionist streak. Very similar to the German Greens or LibDem left. What mushrooms have you been eating? On Foreign Policy, of course. Have the Nats EVER voted for UK Millitary action? Not that most of a modern Green-Liberal party would be entirely pacifist or anti NATO. Unlike many Left Socialists. |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 17, 2017 17:36:49 GMT
What mushrooms have you been eating? On Foreign Policy, of course. Have the Nats EVER voted for UK Millitary action? After I posted I realised that's probably what you meant. And you're right of course. The SNP position seems to be that "we want to keep all our Scottish Regiments, but we don't want to use them ... " |
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Post by gwynthegriff on Dec 17, 2017 17:39:13 GMT
The characteristics of the highlighted parties being what exactly? Think Disraeli & Farage (I know it must be against some law to cite two men of such varying greatness in one post) Wouldn't Disraeli fit into one of the Conservative parties on offer? A little unclear on which - I spent so much time worshipping studying Gladstone I rather neglected his rival. |
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Post by freefair on Dec 17, 2017 17:40:26 GMT
In the Freefair is a deity universe, Disraeli would be the ultimate moderate Conservative.
And Gladstone the ultimate right-Liberal.
And Lloyd George would have been a Progressive Party PM 80 years before the party merged with the Greens.
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hedgehog
Non-Aligned
Enter your message here...
Posts: 6,826
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Post by hedgehog on Dec 17, 2017 18:05:54 GMT
For hedgehog. This was not set out as my perfect paradigm but as my idea of a model that might be attractive to quite a broad strand of the electorate who would 'buy' it as a compound 'offer' despite preferring some bits more than others. You detect 'Tory' influences more than conservative ones and suspect it is me injecting my 'want list'. It isn't. It is my genuine attempt at a construct to fit the nature of the thread. I know that we each have significant reservations about each other. But we do have quite a bit of core gut cross-over on the major theme of a rather different political/physical/mental shape to our society. An ideologically coherent party, is there one, the socialist one proposed had Caroline Lucas and Dennis Skinner, the Patriotic one had Jacob Rees Mogg and Anne Marie Waters, I can't see either of those pairings in the same partys. I called my party Ecofascist, because it alludes to giving up a certain amount of civil liberty to the greater good, (no tax cuts)+(more equality), but ecology is all about energy flows laws and barriers tend to stop these flows, hence I think ideologically reducing government interference where possible would work, that includes migration. |
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Post by Merseymike on Dec 17, 2017 22:32:15 GMT
Yes, Germany was so much better off when it just had one single permitted party, don't you think. There is a balance to be struck. It's just that our system is closer to it than germany's. Germany could quite easily have a minority government but their tradition and nothing more is not to do so. The SPD, Greens or the FPD could very easily vote or not vote as appropriate without having to go into formal coalition but postwar Germany has always had formal coalition and they fear anything different. Understandable. |
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Dec 17, 2017 22:43:00 GMT
I just as easily Balkanise the left, benji! The Marxist Alliance Momentum Compass The Greens Christian Socialist Movement The Social Liberals Labour Unity Progress The Libertarian-Conservative Alliance! Of course under proportional representation, they wouldn't always be "splitting the vote" Nonsense! Labour unity would scoop them all up to reform the great LP! Interesting point, if these parties formed an electoral alliance then who would stand where? Merseymike and his chums could have Liverpool, the socialliberals in London and the green one in Brighton? Think you need to add the Conservative Labour Party to the above list |
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Post by greenchristian on Dec 22, 2017 18:44:26 GMT
I just as easily Balkanise the left, benji! The Marxist Alliance Momentum Compass The Greens Christian Socialist Movement The Social Liberals Labour Unity Progress The Libertarian-Conservative Alliance! Of course under proportional representation, they wouldn't always be "splitting the vote" Nonsense! Labour unity would scoop them all up to reform the great LP! Only if Labour unity was a PosDemos / Syriza kind of party. If it, instead, resembled the real (UK) Labour Party (either pre or post Corbyn), it wouldn't have a hope. |
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