Stoiber/the Union wins in 2002 (Germany)

[Trab]

Let's say that Stoiber's CDU & Westerwelle's FDP both do slightly better than IRL and a black-yellow coalition is formed in 2002. How would the future of German and European politics be impacted by a Stoiber Chancellorship?

[Foggy]

My aunt's then-boyfriend said to me at the time that "if Stoiber vould haff vun, zat vould haff been ze end of ze democracy". Make of that what you will.

[Foggy]

Actually, I can anecdotally add to that with reactions to the possibility of Stoiber serving in cabinet following the 2005 election: one acquaintance who claimed to be from the non-existent 'Bielefeld' was vehemently against the idea, whilst a half-German friend from Gütersloh (whose British half was very much Conservative) expressed indifference at best.

[Arthur Figgis]

More interesting would be if SPD had held on to a few more seats in 2005, so as to have more seats than CDU/CSU. Would a grand coalition have been formed, and if so would it have been led by Schröder rather than Mutti?

While Schröder would still have been seen to have failed, Merkel was also struggling- unimaginable then that she would lead for coming up to 12 years and counting.

[Trab]

Jul 5, 2017 17:20:17 GMT Arthur Figgis said:

More interesting would be if SPD had held on to a few more seats in 2005, so as to have more seats than CDU/CSU. Would a grand coalition have been formed, and if so would it have been led by Schröder rather than Mutti?

While Schröder would still have been seen to have failed, Merkel was also struggling- unimaginable then that she would lead for coming up to 12 years and counting.

to be honest, anyone besides Mutti (especially a politician from the SPD) serving as Chancellor right now is extraordinarily difficult for me to imagine, and I'm sure many others who began following politics in the last 10 years would say the same thing.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jul 5, 2017 21:44:01 GMT Trab said:

Jul 5, 2017 17:20:17 GMT Arthur Figgis said:

More interesting would be if SPD had held on to a few more seats in 2005, so as to have more seats than CDU/CSU. Would a grand coalition have been formed, and if so would it have been led by Schröder rather than Mutti?

While Schröder would still have been seen to have failed, Merkel was also struggling- unimaginable then that she would lead for coming up to 12 years and counting.

to be honest, anyone besides Mutti (especially a politician from the SPD) serving as Chancellor right now is extraordinarily difficult for me to imagine, and I'm sure many others who began following politics in the last 10 years would say the same thing.

I was in Germany during the election campaign that year and the idea now that Mutti is a political giant would have been laughable.  Stoiber easily outmanoeuvred her, and she was seemingly in big trouble.  The SPD had big beasts like Otto Schily, Peter Struck, Wolfgang Clement, Franz Muenterfering...in her own bloc, which was at a historic low in terms of talent, she had big beasts like Schaeuble, Volker Ruehe, Theo Waigel (Stoiber's mortal enemy), and up and coming types like Roland Koch and Eberhard Diepgen who were very visible.  Even the FDP had Westerwelle in his pomp and the utterly bizarre Juergen Mollemann, who I recommend looking up.  If you'd told me then that she'd still be Kanzlerin, I'd have laughed my head off.

The real killer for Stoiber is that the SPD got their revenge on the PDS and stole their voters en masse.

[neilm]

Mollemann was the one with the 80s porn star moustache for those who remember those kind of features.

[Devil Wincarnate]

Jul 13, 2017 8:57:50 GMT neilm said:

Mollemann was the one with the 80s porn star moustache for those who remember those kind of features.

Or for those who haven't been to Germany recently!