cogload
Lib Dem
I jumped in the river and what did I see...
Posts: 8,245
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Post by cogload on Sept 15, 2019 8:37:55 GMT
We have had this discussion in the yellow room so I am not rehashing it here.
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CatholicLeft
Labour
2032 posts until I was "accidentally" deleted.
Posts: 6,306
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Post by CatholicLeft on Sept 15, 2019 8:41:41 GMT
Not wanting to make a partial point at all, but I really think that adopting a policy to unilaterally revoke Article 50 with no 2nd referendum is an awful idea. Many of the voters in the Referendum never turn out in General Elections and to ignore them in such a way would be incredibly divisive. Whilst I take the point that the Lib Dems are not going to win a majority, it seems to show contempt for the referendum result. To revoke, you need another referendum. Remember, I am against leaving but not at any cost. Also, it throws Stephen Lloyd under the bus as he will never be able to back a policy like this.
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 15, 2019 9:31:31 GMT
Lib Dems defect to the FDP That's a really interesting way of putting it. The new crop of Tory defectors would probably be well at home in the FDP. Which itself draws another parallel, which is that the FDP and the German Greens really don't like each other and try to avoid working with each other...
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Post by Forfarshire Conservative on Sept 15, 2019 9:40:32 GMT
A democrat in the Liberal Democrats! A rarity these days😉. From someone who's liked a post indicating a wish for this country to have no MPs anymore and presumably operating therefore under some sort of dictatorship. Oh, and is part of a party where your leader unprecedentedly suspends parliament for weeks and lies to everyone about why they did it. You're not exactly in a position to identify what a democrat is are you champ. Oh dear. That post was a Pete Whitehead post IIRC, that was making a point about the EU, your beloved EU, taking decisions away from democratic control and hoarding them if we remain. So actually, it was a pro democratic like. Clearly lost on you and others who liked your post. On parliament, parliament doesn't sit for weeks anyway for the conference's. So actually all it is is suspended for a few extra days. Hardly an anti democratic coup, now is it?
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jamie
Top Poster
Posts: 6,877
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Post by jamie on Sept 15, 2019 13:49:38 GMT
That's a really interesting way of putting it. The new crop of Tory defectors would probably be well at home in the FDP. Which itself draws another parallel, which is that the FDP and the German Greens really don't like each other and try to avoid working with each other... Although since their defection has been caused by EU policy, they would probably be happy in the CDU anyways.
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Post by manchesterman on Sept 15, 2019 14:10:50 GMT
If their policy is now to revoke Article 50 and cancel Brexit without a referendum, then I think that the Liberal Democrats should change their name from Illiberal Undemocrats to Illiberal Anti-Democrats. i really really dont understand this argument.
Let me give an analogy:
Supposing Labour comes to power (I know, theoretical ) and they decide to offer a referendum on nationalisation of railways, utilities and banks and the electorate votes for it - lets just say by 51.9% to 48.1%
Would those who hold the above opinion then be advocating that the Tory party (and Lib Dems for that matter) should just shrug and say "oh well, that's what the voters said, we'll have to completely abandon the principles on which are whole party is based, even though we think it's economic suicide")
THIS is the logic behind that comment!
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,428
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Post by Crimson King on Sept 15, 2019 14:39:01 GMT
I am pretty sure that I have heard people point out that most MPs were elected on a manifesto commiting to honoring the result of the referendum, as an argument in favour of leaving sooener rather than later. Surley these same people would expect that if most MPs were elected on a manifesto pledge to revoke A50 then they should do just that
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Sept 15, 2019 14:55:56 GMT
For a long time the Tories did put their opposition to nationalisation to one side
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Merseymike
Independent
Posts: 39,237
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Post by Merseymike on Sept 15, 2019 15:01:06 GMT
As I am opposed to referendums I really cant raise much enthusiasm for another one. But given that elections are supposed to be on a variety of issues I can't see a reasonable way out of it
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Sept 15, 2019 15:30:15 GMT
For a long time the Tories did put their opposition to nationalisation to one side Many weren't opposed at all. Stanley Baldwin was very keen, for example. But many of that ilk did object to Labour's nationalisations, which often involved not the removal of services from private hands but from municipal hands.
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Post by curiousliberal on Sept 15, 2019 19:57:12 GMT
I'd like to stick to the yellow room at present as I will probably vote for the LD candidate, subsequent assessments of local candidates notwithstanding. However, I am not paying another membership sub until the newly adopted A50 policy dies.
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Chris from Brum
Lib Dem
What I need is a strong drink and a peer group.
Posts: 9,225
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Post by Chris from Brum on Sept 15, 2019 20:45:01 GMT
Moot, I think you mean. Mute = silent.
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peterl
Green
Monarchic Technocratic Localist
Posts: 8,256
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Post by peterl on Sept 17, 2019 12:15:30 GMT
But what happens if people make a mistake in electing a Lib Dem government. Surely they need a fresh vote to make sure?
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iang
Lib Dem
Posts: 1,543
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Post by iang on Sept 17, 2019 13:34:33 GMT
Isn't that partly the point though? You DO get a fresh vote, albeit a number of years away, but you do get an opportunity to change your mind. No one says "we elected X, so the people have spoken and we'll have to sit out General Elections until X dies or retires"
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Crimson King
Lib Dem
Be nice to each other and sing in tune
Posts: 9,428
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Post by Crimson King on Sept 17, 2019 16:01:55 GMT
But what happens if people make a mistake in electing a Lib Dem government. Surely they need a fresh vote to make sure? dont pretend to be stupid. They will
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Tony Otim
Green
Suffering from Brexistential Despair
Posts: 11,363
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Post by Tony Otim on Sept 17, 2019 16:26:14 GMT
But what happens if people make a mistake in electing a Lib Dem government. Surely they need a fresh vote to make sure? Let's face it, whatever government is elected this year will probably be a big mistake.
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Post by BossMan on Sept 17, 2019 16:40:19 GMT
It's amazing that this thread is now on its 89th page. I check it nearly every day on the off chance someone might actually want me to colour them in..
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Post by gasman2019 on Sept 17, 2019 22:48:00 GMT
It's amazing that this thread is now on its 89th page. I check it nearly every day on the off chance someone might actually want me to colour them in.. How many forum defections have we had?
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Post by BossMan on Sept 18, 2019 16:34:56 GMT
It's amazing that this thread is now on its 89th page. I check it nearly every day on the off chance someone might actually want me to colour them in.. How many forum defections have we had? It's impossible to say for certain. This thread, as long as it is, was created four years after the forum was created. And the forum itself is the effective successor of an older one. A lot of defections have been announced elsewhere, including by private message, which are routinely deleted whenever there is a change of forum ownership. I don't know, in a nutshell.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Sept 24, 2019 7:38:29 GMT
Me, to non-aligned. This time, there's no way back for me in the foreseeable future. what happened?
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