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Post by Adam in Stroud on Jul 28, 2019 10:05:29 GMT
Genuinely interesting that Thatcher had the worst rating in this and Brown the least bad - wouldn't have guessed either of those. Yes, astonishing. Possibly down to the circs under which they went? Worth remembering that for all her achievements Thatcher went because her own cabinet pretty much all saw her as an electoral liability and indeed it was considered miraculous that Major managed to pull off a victory. She'd always been a polarising figure but perhaps in remembering the big picture we've forgotten that by the end not only did the left still hate her but the right had lost faith. I suppose it's also fair to observe that its damn hard for any govt to win a 4th term and for Brown to have deprived Cameron of an absolute majority (albeit via Clegg) suggests that he retained more personal popularity (actually grudging respect is probably the better phrase) than we remember.
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 28, 2019 10:30:13 GMT
Genuinely interesting that Thatcher had the worst rating in this and Brown the least bad - wouldn't have guessed either of those. Not really as these are polls of people with little or no interest in politics and with nothing at all in their heads to make the judgment upon, compiled for the delectation of a small audience of interested insiders who pay them vastly too much attention. The 'views and judgments' of the general public are not really their own but a disorganised and half-digested mis-mash of gossip and biased nonsense from the media outlet of their choice, overlaid with jargon, gossip, misunderstanding, bias and lies often pulling in different directions and leading to flip-flop changes in their heads. Brown had not been in place long so a bit less accummulated rubbish in the heads but Thatcher was after many years of drip-feed knocking copy. These 'ratings' have nothing at all to do with facts or judgment or quality, but are entirely gormless emenations of implanted progaganda.
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Sibboleth
Labour
'Sit on my finger, sing in my ear, O littleblood.'
Posts: 15,375
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Post by Sibboleth on Jul 28, 2019 10:53:43 GMT
Worth remembering that for all her achievements Thatcher went because her own cabinet pretty much all saw her as an electoral liability and indeed it was considered miraculous that Major managed to pull off a victory. She'd always been a polarising figure but perhaps in remembering the big picture we've forgotten that by the end not only did the left still hate her but the right had lost faith. We forget something else as well: her actually quite Utopian political project (this idea of a property-owning, share-owning democracy in which the liberated market would guarantee the autonomy and security of all good citizens etc.) had clearly failed by 1990 and the government had lurched into increasingly weird ideological mannerism. In fact we tend to forget that her government was ever motivated by such a vision; that it ever had a positive purpose. It is very convenient (for different reasons) for both Right and Left to pretend that her government was a smashing success, when, really, all it was successful at (and, in fairness, it was very good at this) was smashing its opponents. But then popular British political history is largely a series of convenient lies. Why, there are still people who insist that there was a 'postwar consensus', my Goodness.
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Post by carlton43 on Jul 28, 2019 10:55:31 GMT
Genuinely interesting that Thatcher had the worst rating in this and Brown the least bad - wouldn't have guessed either of those. Yes, astonishing. Possibly down to the circs under which they went? Worth remembering that for all her achievements Thatcher went because her own cabinet pretty much all saw her as an electoral liability and indeed it was considered miraculous that Major managed to pull off a victory. She'd always been a polarising figure but perhaps in remembering the big picture we've forgotten that by the end not only did the left still hate her but the right had lost faith. I suppose it's also fair to observe that its damn hard for any govt to win a 4th term and for Brown to have deprived Cameron of an absolute majority (albeit via Clegg) suggests that he retained more personal popularity (actually grudging respect is probably the better phrase) than we remember. My type of politics is about self-belief and the centrality of willpower much more than policy or actions. It is about the mental mood constructed and the climate evoked inside the heads of the followers. Thus the success of the past week and the dreadful moribund 3-years of the awful May. There was nothing at all wrong with Thatcher or the party but a lot wrong with the mentality and collapse of will in her cabinet. They subsumed their retreat into mediocrity and fearfulness to her failing powers instead of their communal collapse of unity and will. So they chose the archetypal weak insipid loser Major and got a dead cat bounce before he led them inexorably but oh so tentatively in all the wrong directions on every subject and to perdition. If Thatcher had got angry and stormed into the second round she would have narrowly won. Then we could have had a more thorough going purge of wets and snoflakes and remade the party to fight Blair from a different aspect. He had weaknesses.
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Post by LDCaerdydd on Jul 30, 2019 14:14:00 GMT
The 86 MPs first elected in 2017 who still hold their seats have now been in Parliament longer than the 29 MPs who only served between 2015 and 2017.
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jluk234
Conservative
Next May Make Swinney Pay!
Posts: 431
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Post by jluk234 on Jul 30, 2019 15:38:11 GMT
The 86 MPs first elected in 2017 who still hold their seats have now been in Parliament longer than the 29 MPs who only served between 2015 and 2017. But for now much longer, eh?
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Post by greenhert on Jul 30, 2019 20:49:14 GMT
The 86 MPs first elected in 2017 who still hold their seats have now been in Parliament longer than the 29 MPs who only served between 2015 and 2017. Some of those 29 may yet return.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 31, 2019 15:46:45 GMT
Brecon & Radnor was one of three Conservative gains in 1992, the others were Aberdeen South and Southport.
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Post by hullenedge on Aug 2, 2019 9:32:55 GMT
There hasn't been a swing towards a government since the 1983 General Election. Counting back to 1935 there have been only five 'government swings' - 1955, 1959, 1966, October 1974 and 1983.
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,077
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Aug 2, 2019 10:32:08 GMT
There hasn't been a swing towards a government since the 1983 General Election. Counting back to 1935 there have been only five 'government swings' - 1955, 1959, 1966, October 1974 and 1983. Though bizarrely in 2015 the major party in the coalition improved it's position seat wise despite a small technical swing away from them!
Here's one I've pondered-when was the last time that an incumbent government that had started to lose seats relative to the previous election actually rebuild their parliamentary strength again?
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 2, 2019 10:49:11 GMT
1924 I guess
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,077
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Aug 2, 2019 10:59:32 GMT
But the incumbent government was a minority LAb govt who were ejected...
Perhaps I wasn't clear what I meant. I meant a government once they're in and reached their peak majority once they've started to lose seats haven't kept on losing seats until they are finally ejected from office
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Post by Pete Whitehead on Aug 2, 2019 11:02:30 GMT
But the incumbent government was a minority LAb govt who were ejected...
Perhaps I wasn't clear what I meant. I meant a government once they're in and reached their peak majority once they've started to lose seats haven't kept on losing seats until they are finally ejected from office
Yeah it wasn't a very good example, though from one election to the next it kind of works. Otherwise I think 1865 maybe
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nodealbrexiteer
Forum Regular
non aligned favour no deal brexit!
Posts: 4,077
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Post by nodealbrexiteer on Aug 2, 2019 15:26:34 GMT
But the incumbent government was a minority LAb govt who were ejected...
Perhaps I wasn't clear what I meant. I meant a government once they're in and reached their peak majority once they've started to lose seats haven't kept on losing seats until they are finally ejected from office
Yeah it wasn't a very good example, though from one election to the next it kind of works. Otherwise I think 1865 maybe Thanks I'll have to go and look 1865 up! I was pondering this given the current speculation about an election-Boris would have to buck historic trends!
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Post by greenhert on Aug 7, 2019 21:17:10 GMT
The current spell of Conservative control in Tamworth (15 years and counting) is more than double that of all three of its previous spells of control put together.
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Post by edgbaston on Aug 7, 2019 21:56:26 GMT
The current spell of Conservative control in Tamworth (15 years and counting) is more than double that of all three of its previous spells of control put together. It's crazy to think Tamworth had a Labour MP not *that* long ago. Its gone so Tory since, really remarkable and much more of a dramatic shift than some of the other similar midlands towns. I can't explain why
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Post by greenhert on Aug 7, 2019 22:03:13 GMT
The current spell of Conservative control in Tamworth (15 years and counting) is more than double that of all three of its previous spells of control put together. It's crazy to think Tamworth had a Labour MP not *that* long ago. Its gone so Tory since, really remarkable and much more of a dramatic shift than some of the other similar midlands towns. I can't explain why Tamworth has become a prominent Midlands commuter town and this combined with the fact its house prices are much more reasonable than most typical commuter territory has attracted middle-income Conservatives in their thousands. Staffordshire as a whole has experienced a similar pro-Conservative trend, even in Stoke-on-Trent.
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Post by andrewp on Aug 7, 2019 22:04:38 GMT
The current spell of Conservative control in Tamworth (15 years and counting) is more than double that of all three of its previous spells of control put together. It's crazy to think Tamworth had a Labour MP not *that* long ago. Its gone so Tory since, really remarkable and much more of a dramatic shift than some of the other similar midlands towns. I can't explain why Some other midlands towns have had a similar shift though. Redditch is very similar.
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Post by carlton43 on Aug 7, 2019 23:17:42 GMT
The current spell of Conservative control in Tamworth (15 years and counting) is more than double that of all three of its previous spells of control put together. It's crazy to think Tamworth had a Labour MP not *that* long ago. Its gone so Tory since, really remarkable and much more of a dramatic shift than some of the other similar midlands towns. I can't explain why It is in Staffordshire.
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Post by hullenedge on Sept 18, 2019 20:49:17 GMT
Perhaps interesting or not:-
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