Local Council by-elections 19th January 2023

[Tony Otim]

STAFFORDSHIRE CC; BIddulph North (Con died)
Candidates:
HART, Andrew (Independent)
PRAGASAM, Rathi Thevi (Conservative)
YATES, Nigel Richard (Labour)

2021: Con 1819; Lab 1127; Grn 213
2017: Con 1808; Lab 1111; LD 168
2013: Con 1084; Lab 904; UKIP 852; LD 139

Nigel Yates was the Labour candidates here in 2021 and has been councillor for Biddulph West ward on Staffordshire Moorlands (see below) since 2019. Andrew Hart is one of the sitting independent councillors for Biddulph North ward on Staffs Moorlands. (This division is made up of the wards of Biddulph West, Biddulph North and Biddulph Moor).

Current Council: Con 55; Lab 4; Ind 2; 1 vacancy



STAFFORDSHIRE MOORLANDS; Biddulph West x 2 (Con and Ind died)
Candidates:
EARDLEY, Neil (Independent)
McLOUGHLIN, Alistair James (Independent)
PRAGASAM, Rathi Thevi (Conservative)
PROUDLOVE, Dave (Labour)
SMITH, Charlie (Labour)
STUBBS, Derek James (Conservative) (nomination withdrawn)
WAITE, Ian (Green)

2019: Ind 873; Lab 423; Con 374, 325, 179
2015: Ind 1306, 866; Con 1052; Lab 984, 780; Grn 382
2011: Ind 904, 584, 410; Lab 593; Moorlands Dem All 441; Con 290; LD 137, 89, 87
2007: Ind 842, 561, 543; Ratepayers 425; LD 373, 200; Lab 340, 313
2003: LD 640, 620; Ratepayers 455; Lab 454, 413, 307; Ind 249; Con 249

Ian Waite stood for the Greens in Biddulph North division (see above) in 2021 and in Biddulph North ward in 2019. The deceased Independent was first elected in 2007 and topped the poll in every election since then.

Current Council: Con 29; Lab 13; Ind 11; LD 1; 2 vacancies



STEVENAGE DC; Bedwell (Lab resigned)
Candidates:
BERRY, Chris (Liberal Democrat)
McGRATH, Conor John (Labour)
WYATT, Matthew Paul (Conservative)

2022: Lab 941; Con 452; LD 191; TUSC 73
2021: Lab 979; Con 596; LD 175; TUSC 55
2019: Lab 813; Con 356; Grn 213; LD 119
2018: Lab 1001; Con 506; Grn 151
2016: Lab 917; Con 415; Grn 147; LD 95; TUSC 68
2015: Lab 1530; Con 687; UKIP 605; Grn 136; LD 117; TUSC 31
2014: Lab 901; UKIP 514;Con 301; LD 80; TUSC 37
2012: Lab 897; Con 258; UKIP 218; Grn 88; LD 78; TUSC 39
2011: Lab 1107; Con 421; UKIP 258; Grn 114; TUSC 53
2010: Lab 1114; Con 744; LD 522; UKIP 421
2008: Lab 788; Con 467; LD 243
2007: Lab 1037; Con 430; LD 241
2006: Lab 1144; Con 561
2004: Lab 869; Con 408; LD 365; Soc Alt 119
2003: Lab 1398; Con 440; LD 399; Soc Alt 112
2002: Lab 1616; Con 448; LD 336; Soc Alt 116

Vacancy is for the 2021-24 term (although all-out elections will be due in 2024 in any case). Chris Berry stood here for the Lib Dems in 2022.

Current Council: Lab 23; Con 9; LD 6; 1 vacancy

[batman]

If we hold the last seat, I will say "Bedwell, TY" to the voters & think of Neil Kinnock.

[evergreenadam]

Dec 31, 2022 10:14:35 GMT batman said:

If we hold the last seat, I will say "Bedwell, TY" to the voters & think of Neil Kinnock.

Could you explain?

[The Bishop]

Before being called Islwyn, his seat was named.....

[batman]

Neil Kinnock was Labour MP for Bedwellty from 1970 to 1983 and then for Islwyn until his accession to the peerage.

[Davıd Boothroyd]

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

[johnloony]

Jan 1, 2023 16:17:27 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

It’s unlike you to be inaccurate. It’s pronounced “Bedwellty” (with a double L sound, not a “ch” sound).

[Chris from Brum]

Jan 1, 2023 16:17:27 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

The second half of that is correct.

[gwynthegriff]

Jan 1, 2023 16:17:27 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

Pronounced "bed - vech - ty" by people who cannot pronounce it correctly.

[iainbhx]

Jan 1, 2023 21:02:48 GMT gwynthegriff said:

Jan 1, 2023 16:17:27 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

Pronounced "bed - vech - ty" by people who cannot pronounce it correctly.

Bed-we/sh/-tee would be my go at it. I asked my tame Valley Boy but he insisted it was pronounced "Shithole"

[The Bishop]

Jan 1, 2023 16:17:27 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

IIRC the Private Eye usage came about after the then MP (a ferocious *opponent* of devolution in 1979) claimed that schoolchildren were wetting themselves in class because they didn't know how to ask to go to the toilet in Welsh. No actual evidence of this ever emerged, and NK admitted embarrassment over the episode later.

[minionofmidas]

Bedwethltee is correct, or as correct as you can render ll in English orthography. Correct Welsh, that is, but the problem here is that the - English - Urban District and Constituency name "Bedwellty" follows neither Welsh (Bedwellte) nor older English (Bedwelty, presumably corresponding to a long-established English pronunciation) orthography, and I don't suppose there ever was an officially established pronunciation.

[John Chanin]

It’s a lateral fricative (alveolar-palatal) - very rare sound and therefore not really reproducible by English speakers (or indeed speakers of pretty much any other language).

[maxque]

Jan 2, 2023 19:46:13 GMT John Chanin said:

It’s a lateral fricative (alveolar-palatal) - very rare sound and therefore not really reproducible by English speakers (or indeed speakers of pretty much any other language).

Wikipedia says only 2 European languages other than Welsh have it. Danish and Ukrainian.

[johnloony]

Jan 2, 2023 19:46:13 GMT John Chanin said:

It’s a lateral fricative (alveolar-palatal) - very rare sound and therefore not really reproducible by English speakers (or indeed speakers of pretty much any other language).

That’s a non-sequitur. Just because few languages have a particular phoneme, doesn’t mean that it’s difficult to pronounce.

[carlton43]

Jan 2, 2023 19:46:13 GMT John Chanin said:

It’s a lateral fricative (alveolar-palatal) - very rare sound and therefore not really reproducible by English speakers (or indeed speakers of pretty much any other language).

So, 'bed-well-tee'  it is then.

[Pete Whitehead]

Jan 1, 2023 21:02:48 GMT gwynthegriff said:

Jan 1, 2023 16:17:27 GMT Davıd Boothroyd said:

Pronounced "Bed-vech-ty". Rendered by Private Eye as "Bedwetty".

Pronounced "bed - vech - ty" by people who cannot pronounce it correctly.

AKA normal people

[batman]

I know that a W in Welsh is never pronounced like a V. It's in a sort of hinterland between being a vowel & a consonant. One town LLCHWR in Glamorgan has only W as a vowel.

[YL]

Jan 3, 2023 10:16:35 GMT batman said:

I know that a W in Welsh is never pronounced like a V. It's in a sort of hinterland between being a vowel & a consonant. One town LLCHWR in Glamorgan has only W as a vowel.

That should be Llwchwr (two Ws).

Is "Bed-vech-ty" an old joke about how a German or Russian might pronounce it or something? Otherwise I'm a bit mystified as to where it comes from; I would have thought an English person, even one with very little knowledge of Welsh, would go for something like /bɛdˈwɛlti/ ("bed-WEL-ty") and except for replacing the /l/ with a better approximation to the actual Welsh sound, that's actually pretty close to the Welsh; I can't see where the /v/ comes from. (And is the "ch" meant to be an English style /tʃ/ as in "church", which would be bizarre, or the /x/ of "Bach" (German or Welsh) or "loch", or what?)

[batman]

Jan 3, 2023 10:54:29 GMT YL said:

Jan 3, 2023 10:16:35 GMT batman said:

I know that a W in Welsh is never pronounced like a V. It's in a sort of hinterland between being a vowel & a consonant. One town LLCHWR in Glamorgan has only W as a vowel.

That should be Llwchwr (two Ws).

Is "Bed-vech-ty" an old joke about how a German or Russian might pronounce it or something? Otherwise I'm a bit mystified as to where it comes from; I would have thought an English person, even one with very little knowledge of Welsh, would go for something like /bɛdˈwɛlti/ ("bed-WEL-ty") and except for replacing the /l/ with a better approximation to the actual Welsh sound, that's actually pretty close to the Welsh; I can't see where the /v/ comes from. (And is the "ch" meant to be an English style /tʃ/ as in "church", which would be bizarre, or the /x/ of "Bach" (German or Welsh) or "loch", or what?)

you sure about the spelling?  discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C6651884