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Post by tonygreaves on Mar 9, 2020 23:03:58 GMT
What is this personal hatred against Wera Hobhouse?
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Post by Strontium Dog on Mar 10, 2020 2:07:47 GMT
- She's German - She's a Remainer - She defected from the Tories - She has Jewish ancestry
Think that covers most of the bases...
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Merseymike
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Post by Merseymike on Mar 10, 2020 6:53:21 GMT
- She's German - She's a Remainer - She defected from the Tories - She has Jewish ancestry Think that covers most of the bases... I wonder whether no. 3 is the most pertinent. I was thinking about my old MP the other day. Ray Whitney, MP for Wycombe, who was a pretty typical rightish Tory. But he was also the chair of the Positive European group and was essentially a European federalist and a passionate EU supporter. I suppose he would have gone the way of Gawke or Grieve who are and still are conservatives, even if there's no room for them in the Conservatives
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Mar 10, 2020 8:06:40 GMT
- She's German - She's a Remainer - She defected from the Tories - She has Jewish ancestry Think that covers most of the bases... She would be a serious turn off to potential voters in some places the Lib Dem’s would hope to win. I think she’s the diametric Opposite to Mark Francois, both would have a small section of people who would agreed with them, and a lot who they would rub up the wrong way. Of all the Lib Dem’s who appear on our regional politics programme, she’s by far the one who would convince me not to vote Lib Dem. I think she probably plays well in Bath but wouldn’t in Eg Taunton or Wells.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 10, 2020 10:56:49 GMT
What is this personal hatred against Wera Hobhouse? Nothing personal. It's simply that of all the MPs, and especially of those standing for the leadership or likely to do so, she stands out as the most #FBPEey of the lot and likely to turn off potential voters and recruits.
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 11, 2020 14:30:58 GMT
This was posted on the council's thread, but not here.
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ColinJ
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Post by ColinJ on Mar 11, 2020 18:08:17 GMT
The local paper is now reporting that Cllr. Rodrigues has joined the Conservative Party.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 11, 2020 18:16:00 GMT
I think there is a chunk of voters who formerly felt able to vote Lib Dem because they didn't actually stand for anything. Since 2016, that is no longer the case and is increasingly seen to be no longer the case. I think that's perhaps a slight exaggeration but certainly they have been a dustbin for the disillusioned. Certainly the disillusioned who wanted to leave the EU may have found them impossible to vote for There was the odd phenomenon of the "can't win here" vote - basically chattering classes who felt a duty to vote but didn't want to feel responsible for what the government did so they voted Lib Dem in the expectation they wouldn't get into government and so the voter could look at the government with disappointment but a smug satisfaction that they themselves weren't responsible for voting it in.
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CatholicLeft
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Post by CatholicLeft on Mar 11, 2020 18:35:05 GMT
The local paper is now reporting that Cllr. Rodrigues has joined the Conservative Party. Active and elected under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. What a joke.
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Post by owainsutton on Mar 11, 2020 19:28:51 GMT
I think that's perhaps a slight exaggeration but certainly they have been a dustbin for the disillusioned. Certainly the disillusioned who wanted to leave the EU may have found them impossible to vote for There was the odd phenomenon of the "can't win here" vote - basically chattering classes who felt a duty to vote but didn't want to feel responsible for what the government did so they voted Lib Dem in the expectation they wouldn't get into government and so the voter could look at the government with disappointment but a smug satisfaction that they themselves weren't responsible for voting it in. People sometimes don't vote for something that they don't want SHOCK!!
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Post by Devil Wincarnate on Mar 11, 2020 19:36:47 GMT
The local paper is now reporting that Cllr. Rodrigues has joined the Conservative Party. Active and elected under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. What a joke. Councillor Party.
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andrewp
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Post by andrewp on Mar 11, 2020 19:40:20 GMT
Active and elected under Jeremy Corbyn's leadership. What a joke. Councillor Party. I’m not sure about Councillor party, more doesn’t know what he wants party. He was the great young hope of Bridgwater Labour- they made him mayor within about 2 years of being elected to the Town Council. A slightly unlikely Conservative I would have thought.
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Post by finsobruce on Mar 11, 2020 19:44:04 GMT
I’m not sure about Councillor party, more doesn’t know what he wants party. He was the great young hope of Bridgwater Labour- they made him mayor within about 2 years of being elected to the Town Council. A slightly unlikely Conservative I would have thought. The councillor party has experienced many splits in its time, including the "Look at Me" party.
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Post by timrollpickering on Mar 11, 2020 21:44:06 GMT
There was the odd phenomenon of the "can't win here" vote - basically chattering classes who felt a duty to vote but didn't want to feel responsible for what the government did so they voted Lib Dem in the expectation they wouldn't get into government and so the voter could look at the government with disappointment but a smug satisfaction that they themselves weren't responsible for voting it in. People sometimes don't vote for something that they don't want SHOCK!! No this is a deeper effect. Most people accept that governments of all colours have to do uncomfortable things. These voters wanted to opt out of responsibility and feel absolved of it. Look how quickly they abandoned the Lib Dems once they were in government. This really was a deliberate vote for losers.
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Post by owainsutton on Mar 11, 2020 22:25:01 GMT
People sometimes don't vote for something that they don't want SHOCK!! No this is a deeper effect. Most people accept that governments of all colours have to do uncomfortable things. These voters wanted to opt out of responsibility and feel absolved of it. Look how quickly they abandoned the Lib Dems once they were in government. This really was a deliberate vote for losers. This is excuse-making for how those elected under FPTP can get away with making bad and unpopular decisions, via projection.
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spqr
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Post by spqr on Mar 11, 2020 22:51:12 GMT
No this is a deeper effect. Most people accept that governments of all colours have to do uncomfortable things. These voters wanted to opt out of responsibility and feel absolved of it. Look how quickly they abandoned the Lib Dems once they were in government. This really was a deliberate vote for losers. This is excuse-making for how those elected under FPTP can get away with making bad and unpopular decisions, via projection. Unlike Tim, I think the particular demographic he describes was prepared to back a government with the Lib Dems in it - but only on their own terms. That meant, essentially, a left-of-Labour government which would articulate their ire over the Iraq War and late Blairism. The parliamentary Lib Dems could never have been able to contribute much to that - not even under Kennedy's leadership - and the results of the 2010 GE confirmed that they had to move in a different direction, which they did. Hence the toys being thrown out of the pram by so many Johnny-come-lately supporters once the Coalition was even mooted. A PR system would have given these people more choice, of course, but I suspect many of their votes would have gravitated towards testimonial parties with even less chance or interest in forming an administration. Purity over power was/is often their guiding force, which is why it doesn't surprise me that so many became enthusiastic Corbynites half a decade later.
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Post by tonygreaves on Mar 12, 2020 19:22:29 GMT
What is this personal hatred against Wera Hobhouse? Nothing personal. It's simply that of all the MPs, and especially of those standing for the leadership or likely to do so, she stands out as the most #FBPEey of the lot and likely to turn off potential voters and recruits. FBPEy?
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Post by greenchristian on Mar 12, 2020 19:29:14 GMT
Nothing personal. It's simply that of all the MPs, and especially of those standing for the leadership or likely to do so, she stands out as the most #FBPEey of the lot and likely to turn off potential voters and recruits. FBPEy? #FBPE is a hashtag used in the twitter handles of people who are particularly Remainy. It's stereotypically associated with the more extreme end of the pro-European movement.
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neilm
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Post by neilm on Mar 12, 2020 20:32:34 GMT
#FBPE is a hashtag used in the twitter handles of people who are particularly Remainy. It's stereotypically associated with the more extreme end of the pro-European movement. The ones who believe that people are crying themselves to sleep at night over the UK's withdrawal from the EU, or who think that we face behaviour reminiscent of Germany in 1933, you mean?
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Post by owainsutton on Mar 12, 2020 21:22:47 GMT
#FBPE usage pretty much distilled, in the approach to the Euro elections, into those who were entirely apolitical other than their opposition to Brexit. Pointing out that the Lib Dem and Green MEPs were in different political groups was met with cognitive dissonance.
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